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In this episode, I break down practical strategies for dosing compounded liquid extracts and tinctures, explaining how to convert herb grams to milliliters using ratios (e.g., 1:5), estimating effective dose ranges, and weighing factors like client sensitivity, alcohol exposure, cost, and strength of the formula.
We'll briefly discuss alternatives: infusions, decoctions, and other ways to be more cost effective.
Thanks for listening.
I'd love to hear from you. Leave me a voicemail with feedback or submit a question (click the pink "Send Camille a Message" button on the side of the page) 💚
Camille's Helpful Links for Practitioners
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Welcome to In the Clinic with Camille. My name is Camille Freeman.
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I'm an herbalist and nutritionist, and in this podcast I share little tips and
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tidbits that might be helpful for other practitioners.
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Today I wanted to address a question that came up recently around herbal dosing,
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and specifically dosing when we are creating a formula, an alcohol extract formula,
00:00:20.897 --> 00:00:24.957
how do we think about dosing for the individual herbs that are part of it?
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And I wanted to address this here because I actually get this question quite a lot.
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And I think people feel a little bit hesitant to even bring up the question
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publicly because it feels like, you know, I have all this training.
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I'm in practice as an herbalist.
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So it feels a little bit scary to be like, and I feel a little bit unclear on dosing strategies.
00:00:45.697 --> 00:00:51.317
So here's the deal. Lots of people have very different dosing strategies.
00:00:51.317 --> 00:00:55.437
We have everything from drop dosing to extremely high, you know,
00:00:55.497 --> 00:00:58.617
10, 15, 20 grams a day kind of dosing and beyond.
00:00:58.857 --> 00:01:01.597
So it's no wonder that people feel confused.
00:01:01.997 --> 00:01:06.117
Sometimes it seems easier to just use a, you know, pre-made product and go with
00:01:06.117 --> 00:01:07.157
what it says on the bottle.
00:01:07.397 --> 00:01:10.937
But a lot of times what it says on the bottle is very different from what you were trained in using.
00:01:11.197 --> 00:01:15.997
So how do you handle all of these discrepancies when it comes to advising your
00:01:15.997 --> 00:01:18.757
own clients and formulating for yourself.
00:01:19.297 --> 00:01:22.757
All right, so I'm going to share my thoughts. I do not mean to imply that this
00:01:22.757 --> 00:01:26.637
is the right way or the way that you should do it, but just in case it's helpful
00:01:26.637 --> 00:01:30.937
to give you some perspective to think about or to hear one way of doing things.
00:01:31.297 --> 00:01:35.277
Okay, so when I am thinking about dosing, and we're going to really focus in
00:01:35.277 --> 00:01:40.357
here on the dosing of compounded or formulated herbal extracts.
00:01:40.437 --> 00:01:45.377
We'll set aside capsules, powders, infusions, decoctions, things like that for right now.
00:01:45.517 --> 00:01:49.857
Let's just focus on our tinctures and extracts, fluid extracts, liquid extracts.
00:01:50.703 --> 00:01:53.783
When I'm thinking about these and how I want to dose them, there's a couple
00:01:53.783 --> 00:01:56.563
of factors that come into play for me.
00:01:57.043 --> 00:02:02.463
Number one is I want to make sure the client is getting a high enough dose so
00:02:02.463 --> 00:02:05.123
that there's a chance of a meaningful change.
00:02:05.443 --> 00:02:09.223
If we're, in my opinion, if we're using an herb that's a great fit for them,
00:02:09.303 --> 00:02:13.623
but the dose isn't big enough to make a difference, it's really just a waste of money and their time.
00:02:13.903 --> 00:02:17.043
Of course, some people respond to very low doses. We'll get into that in a second.
00:02:17.043 --> 00:02:22.463
But my first concern is, can I get enough of this herb into this person to really
00:02:22.463 --> 00:02:24.403
give it a shot and see if it's going to help them?
00:02:24.843 --> 00:02:28.383
So that's piece number one. Let's dive into that for a second.
00:02:28.643 --> 00:02:32.423
How do we figure out what is enough? This is where I think there's a lot of
00:02:32.423 --> 00:02:37.503
variability, a lot of different opinions about what do we mean by enough to make a difference.
00:02:38.283 --> 00:02:43.123
Clearly, some people are very susceptible to low doses of substances.
00:02:43.123 --> 00:02:48.023
I usually try to ask a couple questions around, are you particularly sensitive to caffeine?
00:02:48.243 --> 00:02:52.643
Are you somebody who, you know, can take half or a quarter of a dose of a regular
00:02:52.643 --> 00:02:55.603
pain-relieving medication or something like that and it barely,
00:02:55.903 --> 00:02:58.123
you know, it takes everything away?
00:02:58.283 --> 00:03:00.403
Or are you somebody where you really need kind of a big whack?
00:03:00.403 --> 00:03:03.583
Now, to a certain degree, this is variable based on medication,
00:03:03.583 --> 00:03:07.183
but you can sometimes get a feel for whether the person is extremely sensitive
00:03:07.183 --> 00:03:12.123
or maybe a little bit more resistant than your average bear.
00:03:12.643 --> 00:03:18.083
So try to take that into account. But also, in my training and what I've experienced
00:03:18.083 --> 00:03:21.563
in working with clients over, you know, 20 years or whatever it's been now,
00:03:21.803 --> 00:03:25.123
I feel that for most herbs,
00:03:25.343 --> 00:03:29.983
and again, there are exceptions in either direction, but for most herbs,
00:03:30.123 --> 00:03:34.503
I think a bare minimum is going to be somewhere in the range of 2 to 5 grams
00:03:34.503 --> 00:03:37.223
a day that you're going to want to use to see if it's helping.
00:03:37.223 --> 00:03:41.663
Again, if you don't have training in herbal medicine or supplements,
00:03:42.043 --> 00:03:43.743
please look these things up.
00:03:44.375 --> 00:03:47.775
For the most part, people who do have a background in herbs will understand
00:03:47.775 --> 00:03:49.235
what I'm speaking about here.
00:03:49.655 --> 00:03:53.275
So generally speaking, I want to see people getting something in that range
00:03:53.275 --> 00:03:55.235
to know if we're going to make a difference.
00:03:55.575 --> 00:03:59.775
So how do we extrapolate that into a liquid formula?
00:04:00.175 --> 00:04:04.495
Well, what I do is I look at the ratio. So if it's a 1 to 5 formula,
00:04:04.715 --> 00:04:12.875
which many of them are, not all, that means there's 1 gram of herb in 5 milliliters of the formula.
00:04:13.295 --> 00:04:18.255
So in that case, if we wanted to give that herb a good shot at its lowest possible
00:04:18.255 --> 00:04:23.815
dose, we would want to have about 2 grams, which is 10 milliliters or 2 teaspoons.
00:04:25.175 --> 00:04:29.895
So if I want to use 3 or 4 herbs, sometimes you can lower the dose a little bit.
00:04:30.015 --> 00:04:34.095
For example, if you have 2 or 3 different nervine herbs that are all working
00:04:34.095 --> 00:04:37.735
in a similar direction and overlapping, maybe you don't need 2 grams of each
00:04:37.735 --> 00:04:41.995
one of them, but maybe you're looking for 3 or 4 grams total of all of them.
00:04:41.995 --> 00:04:46.575
You can see that if you start to get into a multi-part formula,
00:04:46.875 --> 00:04:50.675
you might be like, oh, well, what does that look like?
00:04:50.755 --> 00:04:53.975
Do I need to have three or four grams of each herb in the formula?
00:04:54.195 --> 00:04:58.915
No, not necessarily. But I do think if you're looking at a multi-part formula,
00:04:59.215 --> 00:05:04.075
you probably do want at least, say, four or five grams of the whole thing together.
00:05:04.615 --> 00:05:09.755
Again depending on what it is so what is that looking like well if it's a one to five tincture,
00:05:10.455 --> 00:05:13.935
then you you're going to need 25 milliliters of
00:05:13.935 --> 00:05:17.435
the tincture to get yourself in the range of five grams and that's
00:05:17.435 --> 00:05:22.215
a lot that's almost an ounce of extract every single day to get yourself a reasonable
00:05:22.215 --> 00:05:27.655
dose so for many people that's not feasible either financially or taste-wise
00:05:27.655 --> 00:05:32.495
or just alcohol you know it's a lot of alcohol to be taking on board for some
00:05:32.495 --> 00:05:34.855
people for various reasons. So.
00:05:35.733 --> 00:05:39.273
If that's the case, maybe an extract isn't quite where you want to go.
00:05:39.533 --> 00:05:43.633
Or you can look for products that have more concentration.
00:05:43.933 --> 00:05:49.353
So instead of a 1 to 5, a 1 to 3, a 1 to 2, or even a 1 to 1 extract might be
00:05:49.353 --> 00:05:51.013
available where you are.
00:05:51.353 --> 00:05:55.413
And in those cases, you can lower the dose. If it's a 1 to 1 extract,
00:05:55.453 --> 00:05:58.793
you only need 1 milliliter to get the equivalent of 1 gram.
00:05:59.493 --> 00:06:02.813
So that's what I'm thinking about. And when people come to work with me and
00:06:02.813 --> 00:06:11.773
I recommend an extract, I'm usually recommending either 10 mils or 15 mils a day and sometimes more.
00:06:12.013 --> 00:06:14.873
And that's often, unless somebody is going to make it themselves,
00:06:15.153 --> 00:06:18.493
that's often not financially super feasible.
00:06:19.113 --> 00:06:21.553
There are exceptions. There are things like bitters, I think,
00:06:21.633 --> 00:06:22.533
that can work really well.
00:06:22.773 --> 00:06:26.333
Sometimes people can take a Nervine formula as needed. So you can just take
00:06:26.333 --> 00:06:30.453
a teaspoon as needed and it doesn't quite add up the same financially speaking.
00:06:30.833 --> 00:06:36.513
But this is one reason that I heavily rely on teas, decoctions and infusions,
00:06:36.533 --> 00:06:41.473
because I find that many people prefer them in terms of the finances.
00:06:41.473 --> 00:06:45.933
And I prefer them in terms of the hydration, the interaction with the herbs,
00:06:46.113 --> 00:06:50.813
taking the time to sit down and have a hot beverage or a cold beverage if you're going to ice it.
00:06:50.913 --> 00:06:53.453
But still, I like that for clients as well.
00:06:53.833 --> 00:06:58.533
Okay, so those are the things that I'm thinking about. Can I get enough of a
00:06:58.533 --> 00:07:01.253
dose in? is it feasible for this person financially?
00:07:02.389 --> 00:07:06.809
Is it too much alcohol that I feel like it might be upsetting their system in
00:07:06.809 --> 00:07:09.669
some way if we're going to be using the kinds of doses I'm looking for?
00:07:09.809 --> 00:07:14.809
And do I have any availability of doing a more concentrated extract that's one-to-one,
00:07:14.929 --> 00:07:18.629
one-to-two, one-to-three, something like that, where we can get the dose in range?
00:07:19.169 --> 00:07:24.689
I know there are lots of people out there who use drop dosing or half a dropper,
00:07:24.889 --> 00:07:27.149
a dropper full, and find results.
00:07:27.149 --> 00:07:31.529
And if that is true for you or your clients, I think that's amazing.
00:07:31.529 --> 00:07:38.049
I just haven't found in my own practice that we really can get the full effects
00:07:38.049 --> 00:07:44.549
of the herb until we get up there in the slightly higher range of dosing.
00:07:45.029 --> 00:07:48.049
And for alcohol, unfortunately, just because of the cost of the alcohol,
00:07:48.269 --> 00:07:52.769
for alcohol extracts, that does mean it can be quite expensive.
00:07:53.249 --> 00:07:57.469
Okay, so I hope that helps. Obviously, this is a nuanced conversation,
00:07:57.469 --> 00:08:01.629
and there are very different dosing strategies. we have everything from drop
00:08:01.629 --> 00:08:07.449
dosing to extremely high, you know, 10, 15, 20 grams a day kind of dosing and beyond.
00:08:07.689 --> 00:08:10.449
So it's no wonder that people feel confused.
00:08:10.849 --> 00:08:14.969
Sometimes it seems easier to just use a, you know, pre-made product and go with
00:08:14.969 --> 00:08:15.989
what it says on the bottle.
00:08:16.229 --> 00:08:19.789
But a lot of times what it says on the bottle is very different from what you were trained in using.
00:08:20.009 --> 00:08:24.849
So how do you handle all of these discrepancies when it comes to advising your
00:08:24.849 --> 00:08:27.629
own clients and formulating for yourself.
00:08:28.209 --> 00:08:31.689
All right, so I'm going to share my thoughts. I do not mean to imply that this
00:08:31.689 --> 00:08:35.589
is the right way or the way that you should do it, but just in case it's helpful
00:08:35.589 --> 00:08:39.849
to give you some perspective to think about or to hear one way of doing things.
00:08:41.351 --> 00:08:45.011
When I am thinking about dosing, and we're going to really focus in here on
00:08:45.011 --> 00:08:49.291
the dosing of compounded or formulated herbal extracts.
00:08:49.371 --> 00:08:54.291
We'll set aside capsules, powders, infusions, decoctions, things like that for right now.
00:08:54.431 --> 00:08:58.851
Let's just focus on our tinctures and extracts, fluid extracts, liquid extracts.
00:08:59.451 --> 00:09:02.731
When I'm thinking about these and how I want to dose them, there's a couple
00:09:02.731 --> 00:09:05.511
of factors that come into play for me.
00:09:05.971 --> 00:09:11.411
Number one is I want to make sure the client is getting a high enough dose so
00:09:11.411 --> 00:09:14.051
that there's a chance of a meaningful change.
00:09:14.351 --> 00:09:18.151
If we're, in my opinion, if we're using an herb that's a great fit for them,
00:09:18.251 --> 00:09:22.551
but the dose isn't big enough to make a difference, it's really just a waste of money and their time.
00:09:22.851 --> 00:09:26.011
Of course, some people respond to very low doses. We'll get into that in a second.
00:09:26.111 --> 00:09:31.431
But my first concern is, can I get enough of this herb into this person to really
00:09:31.431 --> 00:09:33.371
give it a shot and see if it's going to help them?
00:09:33.871 --> 00:09:37.331
So that's piece number one. Let's dive into that for a second.
00:09:37.591 --> 00:09:41.371
How do we figure out what is enough? This is where I think there's a lot of
00:09:41.371 --> 00:09:46.371
variability, a lot of different opinions about what do we mean by enough to make a difference.
00:09:47.373 --> 00:09:52.173
Clearly, some people are very susceptible to low doses of substances.
00:09:52.493 --> 00:09:57.053
I usually try to ask a couple questions around, are you particularly sensitive to caffeine?
00:09:57.253 --> 00:10:01.653
Are you somebody who, you know, can take half or a quarter of a dose of a regular
00:10:01.653 --> 00:10:04.633
pain-relieving medication or something like that, and it barely,
00:10:04.893 --> 00:10:07.153
you know, it takes everything away?
00:10:07.293 --> 00:10:09.433
Or are you somebody where you really need kind of a big whack?
00:10:09.693 --> 00:10:12.593
Now, to a certain degree, this is variable based on medication,
00:10:12.593 --> 00:10:16.213
but you can sometimes get a feel for whether the person is extremely sensitive
00:10:16.213 --> 00:10:21.153
or maybe a little bit more resistant than your average bear.
00:10:21.553 --> 00:10:27.113
So try to take that into account. But also, in my training and what I've experienced
00:10:27.113 --> 00:10:30.593
in working with clients over, you know, 20 years or whatever it's been now,
00:10:30.793 --> 00:10:34.153
I feel that for most herbs,
00:10:34.793 --> 00:10:37.393
and again, there are exceptions in either direction.
00:10:37.753 --> 00:10:42.613
But for most herbs, I think a bare minimum is going to be somewhere in the range
00:10:42.613 --> 00:10:46.253
of two to five grams a day that you're going to want to use to see if it's helping.
00:10:46.813 --> 00:10:50.713
Again, if you don't have training in herbal medicine or supplements,
00:10:51.013 --> 00:10:52.773
please look these things up.
00:10:52.873 --> 00:10:56.813
But for the most part, people who do have a background in herbs will understand
00:10:56.813 --> 00:10:58.273
what I'm speaking about here.
00:10:59.033 --> 00:11:02.313
So generally speaking, I want to see people getting something in that range
00:11:02.313 --> 00:11:04.273
to know if we're going to make a difference.
00:11:04.613 --> 00:11:08.813
So how do we extrapolate that into a liquid formula?
00:11:09.213 --> 00:11:13.493
Well, what I do is I look at the ratio. So if it's a 1 to 5 formula,
00:11:13.753 --> 00:11:21.893
which many of them are, not all, that means there's 1 gram of herb in 5 milliliters of the formula.
00:11:22.273 --> 00:11:27.253
So in that case, if we wanted to give that herb a good shot at its lowest possible
00:11:27.253 --> 00:11:32.853
dose, we would want to have about two grams, which is 10 milliliters or two teaspoons.
00:11:33.834 --> 00:11:38.994
So if I want to use three or four herbs, sometimes you can lower the dose a little bit.
00:11:39.114 --> 00:11:43.194
For example, if you have two or three different nervine herbs that are all working
00:11:43.194 --> 00:11:46.834
in a similar direction and overlapping, maybe you don't need two grams of each
00:11:46.834 --> 00:11:51.074
one of them, but maybe you're looking for three or four grams total of all of them.
00:11:51.494 --> 00:11:55.694
You can see that if you start to get into a multi-part formula,
00:11:55.974 --> 00:11:59.774
you might be like, oh, well, what does that look like?
00:11:59.854 --> 00:12:04.334
Do I need to have three or four grams of each herb in the formula? No, not necessarily.
00:12:04.554 --> 00:12:09.594
But I do think if you're looking at a multi-part formula, you probably do want
00:12:09.594 --> 00:12:13.174
at least, say, four or five grams of the whole thing together.
00:12:13.774 --> 00:12:17.094
Again, depending on what it is. So what is that looking like?
00:12:17.194 --> 00:12:22.794
Well, if it's a one to five tincture, then you're going to need 25 milliliters
00:12:22.794 --> 00:12:25.334
of the tincture to get yourself in the range of five grams.
00:12:25.874 --> 00:12:30.534
And that's a lot. That's almost an ounce of extract every single day to get
00:12:30.534 --> 00:12:31.674
yourself a reasonable dose.
00:12:31.974 --> 00:12:39.074
So for many people, that's not feasible, either financially or taste-wise or just alcohol.
00:12:39.294 --> 00:12:43.034
You know, it's a lot of alcohol to be taking on board for some people for various reasons.
00:12:43.494 --> 00:12:48.394
So if that's the case, maybe an extract isn't quite where you want to go,
00:12:48.394 --> 00:12:52.714
or you can look for products that have more concentration.
00:12:52.954 --> 00:12:58.294
So instead of a 1-5, a 1-3, a one-to-two, or even a one-to-one extract might
00:12:58.294 --> 00:13:00.114
be available where you are.
00:13:00.454 --> 00:13:04.514
And in those cases, you can lower the dose. If it's a one-to-one extract,
00:13:04.654 --> 00:13:07.894
you only need one milliliter to get the equivalent of one gram.
00:13:08.799 --> 00:13:11.919
So that's what I'm thinking about. And when people come to work with me and
00:13:11.919 --> 00:13:20.879
I recommend an extract, I'm usually recommending either 10 mils or 15 mils a day and sometimes more.
00:13:21.159 --> 00:13:23.939
And that's often, unless somebody is going to make it themselves,
00:13:24.299 --> 00:13:27.619
that's often not financially super feasible.
00:13:28.219 --> 00:13:30.659
There are exceptions. There are things like bitters, I think,
00:13:30.739 --> 00:13:34.479
that can work really well. Sometimes people can take a Nervine formula as needed.
00:13:34.599 --> 00:13:39.539
So you can just take a teaspoon as needed and it doesn't quite add up the same financially speaking.
00:13:39.779 --> 00:13:45.619
But this is one reason that I heavily rely on teas, decoctions and infusions.
00:13:45.619 --> 00:13:50.599
Because I find that many people prefer them in terms of the finances.
00:13:50.599 --> 00:13:55.039
And I prefer them in terms of the hydration, the interaction with the herbs,
00:13:55.219 --> 00:13:59.919
taking the time to sit down and have a hot beverage or cold beverage if you're going to ice it.
00:14:00.019 --> 00:14:02.559
But still, I like that. for clients as well.
00:14:02.919 --> 00:14:07.659
Okay, so those are the things that I'm thinking about. Can I get enough of a
00:14:07.659 --> 00:14:10.359
dose in? Is it feasible for this person financially?
00:14:11.379 --> 00:14:15.879
Is it too much alcohol that I feel like it might be upsetting their system in
00:14:15.879 --> 00:14:18.739
some way if we're going to be using the kinds of doses I'm looking for?
00:14:18.859 --> 00:14:23.879
And do I have any availability of doing a more concentrated extract that's one-to-one,
00:14:23.999 --> 00:14:27.699
one-to-two, one-to-three, something like that, where we can get the dose in range?
00:14:28.259 --> 00:14:33.759
I know there are lots of people out there who use drop dosing or half a dropper,
00:14:33.999 --> 00:14:36.259
a dropper full, and find results.
00:14:36.439 --> 00:14:40.619
And if that is true for you or your clients, I think that's amazing.
00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:47.119
I just haven't found in my own practice that we really can get the full effects
00:14:47.119 --> 00:14:50.159
of the herb until we get up there in the.
00:14:51.200 --> 00:14:55.600
Slightly higher range of dosing. And for alcohol, unfortunately,
00:14:55.600 --> 00:14:58.720
just because of the cost of the alcohol, for alcohol extracts,
00:14:58.780 --> 00:15:01.900
that does mean it can be quite expensive.
00:15:02.460 --> 00:15:07.940
Okay, so I hope that helps. Obviously, this is a nuanced conversation, and there is a lot to say.
00:15:08.100 --> 00:15:12.740
So I'm just giving a loose framework of how you might think about dosing and why,
00:15:12.980 --> 00:15:18.560
if you come and do one of my observation groups or hear me present a case study
00:15:18.560 --> 00:15:21.900
or something like that, you might think, wow, the doses you're using are higher,
00:15:22.040 --> 00:15:23.460
a lot higher than what I might do.
00:15:23.740 --> 00:15:30.040
And that's just kind of my rationale for what I've seen and how things work for me in my practice.
00:15:30.460 --> 00:15:34.200
All right. I hope that was helpful. If you have a question, I would love to hear it.
00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:39.660
Please feel free to go to intheclinic.com. You can submit questions there. You can email me.
00:15:40.340 --> 00:15:44.440
I also wanted to let you know that I do have a practitioner notes email list
00:15:44.440 --> 00:15:45.600
that goes out every Thursday.
00:15:46.020 --> 00:15:50.320
If you are not on it, I would love to have you join us. You can join from intheclinic.com
00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:52.680
or my main website, camillefreeman.com.
00:15:52.760 --> 00:15:55.540
They both have sign-up forms right there on the front page.
00:15:55.760 --> 00:16:00.560
And if you sign up, you will hear from me every single Thursday with some thoughts.
00:16:00.740 --> 00:16:07.060
I send recommendations about interesting recipes, articles, tools,
00:16:07.280 --> 00:16:09.960
tasks, things like that. Anything that's on my mind, I send that out.
00:16:10.380 --> 00:16:14.060
And I'd love to connect with you there. All right, have a lovely rest of your
00:16:14.060 --> 00:16:15.400
day, and I will talk to you soon.
00:00:00.017 --> 00:00:03.137
Welcome to In the Clinic with Camille. My name is Camille Freeman.
00:00:03.337 --> 00:00:06.977
I'm an herbalist and nutritionist, and in this podcast I share little tips and
00:00:06.977 --> 00:00:09.057
tidbits that might be helpful for other practitioners.
00:00:09.757 --> 00:00:14.637
Today I wanted to address a question that came up recently around herbal dosing,
00:00:14.757 --> 00:00:20.637
and specifically dosing when we are creating a formula, an alcohol extract formula,
00:00:20.897 --> 00:00:24.957
how do we think about dosing for the individual herbs that are part of it?
00:00:25.537 --> 00:00:28.957
And I wanted to address this here because I actually get this question quite a lot.
00:00:29.097 --> 00:00:33.797
And I think people feel a little bit hesitant to even bring up the question
00:00:33.797 --> 00:00:37.617
publicly because it feels like, you know, I have all this training.
00:00:37.617 --> 00:00:39.257
I'm in practice as an herbalist.
00:00:39.317 --> 00:00:45.137
So it feels a little bit scary to be like, and I feel a little bit unclear on dosing strategies.
00:00:45.697 --> 00:00:51.317
So here's the deal. Lots of people have very different dosing strategies.
00:00:51.317 --> 00:00:55.437
We have everything from drop dosing to extremely high, you know,
00:00:55.497 --> 00:00:58.617
10, 15, 20 grams a day kind of dosing and beyond.
00:00:58.857 --> 00:01:01.597
So it's no wonder that people feel confused.
00:01:01.997 --> 00:01:06.117
Sometimes it seems easier to just use a, you know, pre-made product and go with
00:01:06.117 --> 00:01:07.157
what it says on the bottle.
00:01:07.397 --> 00:01:10.937
But a lot of times what it says on the bottle is very different from what you were trained in using.
00:01:11.197 --> 00:01:15.997
So how do you handle all of these discrepancies when it comes to advising your
00:01:15.997 --> 00:01:18.757
own clients and formulating for yourself.
00:01:19.297 --> 00:01:22.757
All right, so I'm going to share my thoughts. I do not mean to imply that this
00:01:22.757 --> 00:01:26.637
is the right way or the way that you should do it, but just in case it's helpful
00:01:26.637 --> 00:01:30.937
to give you some perspective to think about or to hear one way of doing things.
00:01:31.297 --> 00:01:35.277
Okay, so when I am thinking about dosing, and we're going to really focus in
00:01:35.277 --> 00:01:40.357
here on the dosing of compounded or formulated herbal extracts.
00:01:40.437 --> 00:01:45.377
We'll set aside capsules, powders, infusions, decoctions, things like that for right now.
00:01:45.517 --> 00:01:49.857
Let's just focus on our tinctures and extracts, fluid extracts, liquid extracts.
00:01:50.703 --> 00:01:53.783
When I'm thinking about these and how I want to dose them, there's a couple
00:01:53.783 --> 00:01:56.563
of factors that come into play for me.
00:01:57.043 --> 00:02:02.463
Number one is I want to make sure the client is getting a high enough dose so
00:02:02.463 --> 00:02:05.123
that there's a chance of a meaningful change.
00:02:05.443 --> 00:02:09.223
If we're, in my opinion, if we're using an herb that's a great fit for them,
00:02:09.303 --> 00:02:13.623
but the dose isn't big enough to make a difference, it's really just a waste of money and their time.
00:02:13.903 --> 00:02:17.043
Of course, some people respond to very low doses. We'll get into that in a second.
00:02:17.043 --> 00:02:22.463
But my first concern is, can I get enough of this herb into this person to really
00:02:22.463 --> 00:02:24.403
give it a shot and see if it's going to help them?
00:02:24.843 --> 00:02:28.383
So that's piece number one. Let's dive into that for a second.
00:02:28.643 --> 00:02:32.423
How do we figure out what is enough? This is where I think there's a lot of
00:02:32.423 --> 00:02:37.503
variability, a lot of different opinions about what do we mean by enough to make a difference.
00:02:38.283 --> 00:02:43.123
Clearly, some people are very susceptible to low doses of substances.
00:02:43.123 --> 00:02:48.023
I usually try to ask a couple questions around, are you particularly sensitive to caffeine?
00:02:48.243 --> 00:02:52.643
Are you somebody who, you know, can take half or a quarter of a dose of a regular
00:02:52.643 --> 00:02:55.603
pain-relieving medication or something like that and it barely,
00:02:55.903 --> 00:02:58.123
you know, it takes everything away?
00:02:58.283 --> 00:03:00.403
Or are you somebody where you really need kind of a big whack?
00:03:00.403 --> 00:03:03.583
Now, to a certain degree, this is variable based on medication,
00:03:03.583 --> 00:03:07.183
but you can sometimes get a feel for whether the person is extremely sensitive
00:03:07.183 --> 00:03:12.123
or maybe a little bit more resistant than your average bear.
00:03:12.643 --> 00:03:18.083
So try to take that into account. But also, in my training and what I've experienced
00:03:18.083 --> 00:03:21.563
in working with clients over, you know, 20 years or whatever it's been now,
00:03:21.803 --> 00:03:25.123
I feel that for most herbs,
00:03:25.343 --> 00:03:29.983
and again, there are exceptions in either direction, but for most herbs,
00:03:30.123 --> 00:03:34.503
I think a bare minimum is going to be somewhere in the range of 2 to 5 grams
00:03:34.503 --> 00:03:37.223
a day that you're going to want to use to see if it's helping.
00:03:37.223 --> 00:03:41.663
Again, if you don't have training in herbal medicine or supplements,
00:03:42.043 --> 00:03:43.743
please look these things up.
00:03:44.375 --> 00:03:47.775
For the most part, people who do have a background in herbs will understand
00:03:47.775 --> 00:03:49.235
what I'm speaking about here.
00:03:49.655 --> 00:03:53.275
So generally speaking, I want to see people getting something in that range
00:03:53.275 --> 00:03:55.235
to know if we're going to make a difference.
00:03:55.575 --> 00:03:59.775
So how do we extrapolate that into a liquid formula?
00:04:00.175 --> 00:04:04.495
Well, what I do is I look at the ratio. So if it's a 1 to 5 formula,
00:04:04.715 --> 00:04:12.875
which many of them are, not all, that means there's 1 gram of herb in 5 milliliters of the formula.
00:04:13.295 --> 00:04:18.255
So in that case, if we wanted to give that herb a good shot at its lowest possible
00:04:18.255 --> 00:04:23.815
dose, we would want to have about 2 grams, which is 10 milliliters or 2 teaspoons.
00:04:25.175 --> 00:04:29.895
So if I want to use 3 or 4 herbs, sometimes you can lower the dose a little bit.
00:04:30.015 --> 00:04:34.095
For example, if you have 2 or 3 different nervine herbs that are all working
00:04:34.095 --> 00:04:37.735
in a similar direction and overlapping, maybe you don't need 2 grams of each
00:04:37.735 --> 00:04:41.995
one of them, but maybe you're looking for 3 or 4 grams total of all of them.
00:04:41.995 --> 00:04:46.575
You can see that if you start to get into a multi-part formula,
00:04:46.875 --> 00:04:50.675
you might be like, oh, well, what does that look like?
00:04:50.755 --> 00:04:53.975
Do I need to have three or four grams of each herb in the formula?
00:04:54.195 --> 00:04:58.915
No, not necessarily. But I do think if you're looking at a multi-part formula,
00:04:59.215 --> 00:05:04.075
you probably do want at least, say, four or five grams of the whole thing together.
00:05:04.615 --> 00:05:09.755
Again depending on what it is so what is that looking like well if it's a one to five tincture,
00:05:10.455 --> 00:05:13.935
then you you're going to need 25 milliliters of
00:05:13.935 --> 00:05:17.435
the tincture to get yourself in the range of five grams and that's
00:05:17.435 --> 00:05:22.215
a lot that's almost an ounce of extract every single day to get yourself a reasonable
00:05:22.215 --> 00:05:27.655
dose so for many people that's not feasible either financially or taste-wise
00:05:27.655 --> 00:05:32.495
or just alcohol you know it's a lot of alcohol to be taking on board for some
00:05:32.495 --> 00:05:34.855
people for various reasons. So.
00:05:35.733 --> 00:05:39.273
If that's the case, maybe an extract isn't quite where you want to go.
00:05:39.533 --> 00:05:43.633
Or you can look for products that have more concentration.
00:05:43.933 --> 00:05:49.353
So instead of a 1 to 5, a 1 to 3, a 1 to 2, or even a 1 to 1 extract might be
00:05:49.353 --> 00:05:51.013
available where you are.
00:05:51.353 --> 00:05:55.413
And in those cases, you can lower the dose. If it's a 1 to 1 extract,
00:05:55.453 --> 00:05:58.793
you only need 1 milliliter to get the equivalent of 1 gram.
00:05:59.493 --> 00:06:02.813
So that's what I'm thinking about. And when people come to work with me and
00:06:02.813 --> 00:06:11.773
I recommend an extract, I'm usually recommending either 10 mils or 15 mils a day and sometimes more.
00:06:12.013 --> 00:06:14.873
And that's often, unless somebody is going to make it themselves,
00:06:15.153 --> 00:06:18.493
that's often not financially super feasible.
00:06:19.113 --> 00:06:21.553
There are exceptions. There are things like bitters, I think,
00:06:21.633 --> 00:06:22.533
that can work really well.
00:06:22.773 --> 00:06:26.333
Sometimes people can take a Nervine formula as needed. So you can just take
00:06:26.333 --> 00:06:30.453
a teaspoon as needed and it doesn't quite add up the same financially speaking.
00:06:30.833 --> 00:06:36.513
But this is one reason that I heavily rely on teas, decoctions and infusions,
00:06:36.533 --> 00:06:41.473
because I find that many people prefer them in terms of the finances.
00:06:41.473 --> 00:06:45.933
And I prefer them in terms of the hydration, the interaction with the herbs,
00:06:46.113 --> 00:06:50.813
taking the time to sit down and have a hot beverage or a cold beverage if you're going to ice it.
00:06:50.913 --> 00:06:53.453
But still, I like that for clients as well.
00:06:53.833 --> 00:06:58.533
Okay, so those are the things that I'm thinking about. Can I get enough of a
00:06:58.533 --> 00:07:01.253
dose in? is it feasible for this person financially?
00:07:02.389 --> 00:07:06.809
Is it too much alcohol that I feel like it might be upsetting their system in
00:07:06.809 --> 00:07:09.669
some way if we're going to be using the kinds of doses I'm looking for?
00:07:09.809 --> 00:07:14.809
And do I have any availability of doing a more concentrated extract that's one-to-one,
00:07:14.929 --> 00:07:18.629
one-to-two, one-to-three, something like that, where we can get the dose in range?
00:07:19.169 --> 00:07:24.689
I know there are lots of people out there who use drop dosing or half a dropper,
00:07:24.889 --> 00:07:27.149
a dropper full, and find results.
00:07:27.149 --> 00:07:31.529
And if that is true for you or your clients, I think that's amazing.
00:07:31.529 --> 00:07:38.049
I just haven't found in my own practice that we really can get the full effects
00:07:38.049 --> 00:07:44.549
of the herb until we get up there in the slightly higher range of dosing.
00:07:45.029 --> 00:07:48.049
And for alcohol, unfortunately, just because of the cost of the alcohol,
00:07:48.269 --> 00:07:52.769
for alcohol extracts, that does mean it can be quite expensive.
00:07:53.249 --> 00:07:57.469
Okay, so I hope that helps. Obviously, this is a nuanced conversation,
00:07:57.469 --> 00:08:01.629
and there are very different dosing strategies. we have everything from drop
00:08:01.629 --> 00:08:07.449
dosing to extremely high, you know, 10, 15, 20 grams a day kind of dosing and beyond.
00:08:07.689 --> 00:08:10.449
So it's no wonder that people feel confused.
00:08:10.849 --> 00:08:14.969
Sometimes it seems easier to just use a, you know, pre-made product and go with
00:08:14.969 --> 00:08:15.989
what it says on the bottle.
00:08:16.229 --> 00:08:19.789
But a lot of times what it says on the bottle is very different from what you were trained in using.
00:08:20.009 --> 00:08:24.849
So how do you handle all of these discrepancies when it comes to advising your
00:08:24.849 --> 00:08:27.629
own clients and formulating for yourself.
00:08:28.209 --> 00:08:31.689
All right, so I'm going to share my thoughts. I do not mean to imply that this
00:08:31.689 --> 00:08:35.589
is the right way or the way that you should do it, but just in case it's helpful
00:08:35.589 --> 00:08:39.849
to give you some perspective to think about or to hear one way of doing things.
00:08:41.351 --> 00:08:45.011
When I am thinking about dosing, and we're going to really focus in here on
00:08:45.011 --> 00:08:49.291
the dosing of compounded or formulated herbal extracts.
00:08:49.371 --> 00:08:54.291
We'll set aside capsules, powders, infusions, decoctions, things like that for right now.
00:08:54.431 --> 00:08:58.851
Let's just focus on our tinctures and extracts, fluid extracts, liquid extracts.
00:08:59.451 --> 00:09:02.731
When I'm thinking about these and how I want to dose them, there's a couple
00:09:02.731 --> 00:09:05.511
of factors that come into play for me.
00:09:05.971 --> 00:09:11.411
Number one is I want to make sure the client is getting a high enough dose so
00:09:11.411 --> 00:09:14.051
that there's a chance of a meaningful change.
00:09:14.351 --> 00:09:18.151
If we're, in my opinion, if we're using an herb that's a great fit for them,
00:09:18.251 --> 00:09:22.551
but the dose isn't big enough to make a difference, it's really just a waste of money and their time.
00:09:22.851 --> 00:09:26.011
Of course, some people respond to very low doses. We'll get into that in a second.
00:09:26.111 --> 00:09:31.431
But my first concern is, can I get enough of this herb into this person to really
00:09:31.431 --> 00:09:33.371
give it a shot and see if it's going to help them?
00:09:33.871 --> 00:09:37.331
So that's piece number one. Let's dive into that for a second.
00:09:37.591 --> 00:09:41.371
How do we figure out what is enough? This is where I think there's a lot of
00:09:41.371 --> 00:09:46.371
variability, a lot of different opinions about what do we mean by enough to make a difference.
00:09:47.373 --> 00:09:52.173
Clearly, some people are very susceptible to low doses of substances.
00:09:52.493 --> 00:09:57.053
I usually try to ask a couple questions around, are you particularly sensitive to caffeine?
00:09:57.253 --> 00:10:01.653
Are you somebody who, you know, can take half or a quarter of a dose of a regular
00:10:01.653 --> 00:10:04.633
pain-relieving medication or something like that, and it barely,
00:10:04.893 --> 00:10:07.153
you know, it takes everything away?
00:10:07.293 --> 00:10:09.433
Or are you somebody where you really need kind of a big whack?
00:10:09.693 --> 00:10:12.593
Now, to a certain degree, this is variable based on medication,
00:10:12.593 --> 00:10:16.213
but you can sometimes get a feel for whether the person is extremely sensitive
00:10:16.213 --> 00:10:21.153
or maybe a little bit more resistant than your average bear.
00:10:21.553 --> 00:10:27.113
So try to take that into account. But also, in my training and what I've experienced
00:10:27.113 --> 00:10:30.593
in working with clients over, you know, 20 years or whatever it's been now,
00:10:30.793 --> 00:10:34.153
I feel that for most herbs,
00:10:34.793 --> 00:10:37.393
and again, there are exceptions in either direction.
00:10:37.753 --> 00:10:42.613
But for most herbs, I think a bare minimum is going to be somewhere in the range
00:10:42.613 --> 00:10:46.253
of two to five grams a day that you're going to want to use to see if it's helping.
00:10:46.813 --> 00:10:50.713
Again, if you don't have training in herbal medicine or supplements,
00:10:51.013 --> 00:10:52.773
please look these things up.
00:10:52.873 --> 00:10:56.813
But for the most part, people who do have a background in herbs will understand
00:10:56.813 --> 00:10:58.273
what I'm speaking about here.
00:10:59.033 --> 00:11:02.313
So generally speaking, I want to see people getting something in that range
00:11:02.313 --> 00:11:04.273
to know if we're going to make a difference.
00:11:04.613 --> 00:11:08.813
So how do we extrapolate that into a liquid formula?
00:11:09.213 --> 00:11:13.493
Well, what I do is I look at the ratio. So if it's a 1 to 5 formula,
00:11:13.753 --> 00:11:21.893
which many of them are, not all, that means there's 1 gram of herb in 5 milliliters of the formula.
00:11:22.273 --> 00:11:27.253
So in that case, if we wanted to give that herb a good shot at its lowest possible
00:11:27.253 --> 00:11:32.853
dose, we would want to have about two grams, which is 10 milliliters or two teaspoons.
00:11:33.834 --> 00:11:38.994
So if I want to use three or four herbs, sometimes you can lower the dose a little bit.
00:11:39.114 --> 00:11:43.194
For example, if you have two or three different nervine herbs that are all working
00:11:43.194 --> 00:11:46.834
in a similar direction and overlapping, maybe you don't need two grams of each
00:11:46.834 --> 00:11:51.074
one of them, but maybe you're looking for three or four grams total of all of them.
00:11:51.494 --> 00:11:55.694
You can see that if you start to get into a multi-part formula,
00:11:55.974 --> 00:11:59.774
you might be like, oh, well, what does that look like?
00:11:59.854 --> 00:12:04.334
Do I need to have three or four grams of each herb in the formula? No, not necessarily.
00:12:04.554 --> 00:12:09.594
But I do think if you're looking at a multi-part formula, you probably do want
00:12:09.594 --> 00:12:13.174
at least, say, four or five grams of the whole thing together.
00:12:13.774 --> 00:12:17.094
Again, depending on what it is. So what is that looking like?
00:12:17.194 --> 00:12:22.794
Well, if it's a one to five tincture, then you're going to need 25 milliliters
00:12:22.794 --> 00:12:25.334
of the tincture to get yourself in the range of five grams.
00:12:25.874 --> 00:12:30.534
And that's a lot. That's almost an ounce of extract every single day to get
00:12:30.534 --> 00:12:31.674
yourself a reasonable dose.
00:12:31.974 --> 00:12:39.074
So for many people, that's not feasible, either financially or taste-wise or just alcohol.
00:12:39.294 --> 00:12:43.034
You know, it's a lot of alcohol to be taking on board for some people for various reasons.
00:12:43.494 --> 00:12:48.394
So if that's the case, maybe an extract isn't quite where you want to go,
00:12:48.394 --> 00:12:52.714
or you can look for products that have more concentration.
00:12:52.954 --> 00:12:58.294
So instead of a 1-5, a 1-3, a one-to-two, or even a one-to-one extract might
00:12:58.294 --> 00:13:00.114
be available where you are.
00:13:00.454 --> 00:13:04.514
And in those cases, you can lower the dose. If it's a one-to-one extract,
00:13:04.654 --> 00:13:07.894
you only need one milliliter to get the equivalent of one gram.
00:13:08.799 --> 00:13:11.919
So that's what I'm thinking about. And when people come to work with me and
00:13:11.919 --> 00:13:20.879
I recommend an extract, I'm usually recommending either 10 mils or 15 mils a day and sometimes more.
00:13:21.159 --> 00:13:23.939
And that's often, unless somebody is going to make it themselves,
00:13:24.299 --> 00:13:27.619
that's often not financially super feasible.
00:13:28.219 --> 00:13:30.659
There are exceptions. There are things like bitters, I think,
00:13:30.739 --> 00:13:34.479
that can work really well. Sometimes people can take a Nervine formula as needed.
00:13:34.599 --> 00:13:39.539
So you can just take a teaspoon as needed and it doesn't quite add up the same financially speaking.
00:13:39.779 --> 00:13:45.619
But this is one reason that I heavily rely on teas, decoctions and infusions.
00:13:45.619 --> 00:13:50.599
Because I find that many people prefer them in terms of the finances.
00:13:50.599 --> 00:13:55.039
And I prefer them in terms of the hydration, the interaction with the herbs,
00:13:55.219 --> 00:13:59.919
taking the time to sit down and have a hot beverage or cold beverage if you're going to ice it.
00:14:00.019 --> 00:14:02.559
But still, I like that. for clients as well.
00:14:02.919 --> 00:14:07.659
Okay, so those are the things that I'm thinking about. Can I get enough of a
00:14:07.659 --> 00:14:10.359
dose in? Is it feasible for this person financially?
00:14:11.379 --> 00:14:15.879
Is it too much alcohol that I feel like it might be upsetting their system in
00:14:15.879 --> 00:14:18.739
some way if we're going to be using the kinds of doses I'm looking for?
00:14:18.859 --> 00:14:23.879
And do I have any availability of doing a more concentrated extract that's one-to-one,
00:14:23.999 --> 00:14:27.699
one-to-two, one-to-three, something like that, where we can get the dose in range?
00:14:28.259 --> 00:14:33.759
I know there are lots of people out there who use drop dosing or half a dropper,
00:14:33.999 --> 00:14:36.259
a dropper full, and find results.
00:14:36.439 --> 00:14:40.619
And if that is true for you or your clients, I think that's amazing.
00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:47.119
I just haven't found in my own practice that we really can get the full effects
00:14:47.119 --> 00:14:50.159
of the herb until we get up there in the.
00:14:51.200 --> 00:14:55.600
Slightly higher range of dosing. And for alcohol, unfortunately,
00:14:55.600 --> 00:14:58.720
just because of the cost of the alcohol, for alcohol extracts,
00:14:58.780 --> 00:15:01.900
that does mean it can be quite expensive.
00:15:02.460 --> 00:15:07.940
Okay, so I hope that helps. Obviously, this is a nuanced conversation, and there is a lot to say.
00:15:08.100 --> 00:15:12.740
So I'm just giving a loose framework of how you might think about dosing and why,
00:15:12.980 --> 00:15:18.560
if you come and do one of my observation groups or hear me present a case study
00:15:18.560 --> 00:15:21.900
or something like that, you might think, wow, the doses you're using are higher,
00:15:22.040 --> 00:15:23.460
a lot higher than what I might do.
00:15:23.740 --> 00:15:30.040
And that's just kind of my rationale for what I've seen and how things work for me in my practice.
00:15:30.460 --> 00:15:34.200
All right. I hope that was helpful. If you have a question, I would love to hear it.
00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:39.660
Please feel free to go to intheclinic.com. You can submit questions there. You can email me.
00:15:40.340 --> 00:15:44.440
I also wanted to let you know that I do have a practitioner notes email list
00:15:44.440 --> 00:15:45.600
that goes out every Thursday.
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If you are not on it, I would love to have you join us. You can join from intheclinic.com
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or my main website, camillefreeman.com.
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They both have sign-up forms right there on the front page.
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And if you sign up, you will hear from me every single Thursday with some thoughts.
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I send recommendations about interesting recipes, articles, tools,
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tasks, things like that. Anything that's on my mind, I send that out.
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And I'd love to connect with you there. All right, have a lovely rest of your
00:16:14.060 --> 00:16:15.400
day, and I will talk to you soon.