100 | How to Dose Liquid Herbal Extracts and Tinctures

0:00 Welcome to In the Clinic with Camille. My name is Camille Freeman. I'm an herbalist and nutritionist, and in this podcast I share little tips and tidbits that might be helpful for other practitioners. Today I wanted to address a question that came up recently around herbal dosing, and specifically dosing when we are creating a formula, an alcohol extract formula, how do we think about dosing for the individual herbs that are part of it? And I wanted to address this here because I actually get this question quite a lot. And I think people feel a little bit hesitant to even bring up the question publicly because it feels like, you know, I have all this training. I'm in practice as an herbalist. So it feels a little bit scary to be like, and I feel a little bit unclear on dosing strategies.

0:45 So here's the deal. Lots of people have very different dosing strategies. We have everything from drop dosing to extremely high, you know, 10, 15, 20 grams a day kind of dosing and beyond. So it's no wonder that people feel confused. Sometimes it seems easier to just use a, you know, pre-made product and go with what it says on the bottle. But a lot of times what it says on the bottle is very different from what you were trained in using. So how do you handle all of these discrepancies when it comes to advising your own clients and formulating for yourself. All right, so I'm going to share my thoughts. I do not mean to imply that this is the right way or the way that you should do it, but just in case it's helpful to give you some perspective to think about or to hear one way of doing things.

1:31 Okay, so when I am thinking about dosing, and we're going to really focus in here on the dosing of compounded or formulated herbal extracts. We'll set aside capsules, powders, infusions, decoctions, things like that for right now. Let's just focus on our tinctures and extracts, fluid extracts, liquid extracts. When I'm thinking about these and how I want to dose them, there's a couple of factors that come into play for me. Number one is I want to make sure the client is getting a high enough dose so that there's a chance of a meaningful change. If we're, in my opinion, if we're using an herb that's a great fit for them, but the dose isn't big enough to make a difference, it's really just a waste of money and their time.

2:13 Of course, some people respond to very low doses. We'll get into that in a second. But my first concern is, can I get enough of this herb into this person to really give it a shot and see if it's going to help them? So that's piece number one. Let's dive into that for a second. How do we figure out what is enough? This is where I think there's a lot of variability, a lot of different opinions about what do we mean by enough to make a difference. Clearly, some people are very susceptible to low doses of substances. I usually try to ask a couple questions around, are you particularly sensitive to caffeine? Are you somebody who, you know, can take half or a quarter of a dose of a regular pain-relieving medication or something like that and it barely, you know, it takes everything away?

2:58 Or are you somebody where you really need kind of a big whack? Now, to a certain degree, this is variable based on medication, but you can sometimes get a feel for whether the person is extremely sensitive or maybe a little bit more resistant than your average bear. So try to take that into account. But also, in my training and what I've experienced in working with clients over, you know, 20 years or whatever it's been now, I feel that for most herbs, and again, there are exceptions in either direction, but for most herbs, I think a bare minimum is going to be somewhere in the range of 2 to 5 grams a day that you're going to want to use to see if it's helping. Again, if you don't have training in herbal medicine or supplements, please look these things up.

3:44 For the most part, people who do have a background in herbs will understand what I'm speaking about here. So generally speaking, I want to see people getting something in that range to know if we're going to make a difference. So how do we extrapolate that into a liquid formula? Well, what I do is I look at the ratio. So if it's a 1 to 5 formula, which many of them are, not all, that means there's 1 gram of herb in 5 milliliters of the formula. So in that case, if we wanted to give that herb a good shot at its lowest possible dose, we would want to have about 2 grams, which is 10 milliliters or 2 teaspoons.

4:25 So if I want to use 3 or 4 herbs, sometimes you can lower the dose a little bit. For example, if you have 2 or 3 different nervine herbs that are all working in a similar direction and overlapping, maybe you don't need 2 grams of each one of them, but maybe you're looking for 3 or 4 grams total of all of them. You can see that if you start to get into a multi-part formula, you might be like, oh, well, what does that look like? Do I need to have three or four grams of each herb in the formula? No, not necessarily. But I do think if you're looking at a multi-part formula, you probably do want at least, say, four or five grams of the whole thing together. Again depending on what it is so what is that looking like well if it's a one to five tincture, then you you're going to need 25 milliliters of the tincture to get yourself in the range of five grams and that's a lot that's almost an ounce of extract every single day to get yourself a reasonable dose so for many people that's not feasible either financially or taste-wise or just alcohol you know it's a lot of alcohol to be taking on board for some people for various reasons. So.

5:35 If that's the case, maybe an extract isn't quite where you want to go. Or you can look for products that have more concentration. So instead of a 1 to 5, a 1 to 3, a 1 to 2, or even a 1 to 1 extract might be available where you are. And in those cases, you can lower the dose. If it's a 1 to 1 extract, you only need 1 milliliter to get the equivalent of 1 gram. So that's what I'm thinking about. And when people come to work with me and I recommend an extract, I'm usually recommending either 10 mils or 15 mils a day and sometimes more. And that's often, unless somebody is going to make it themselves, that's often not financially super feasible.

6:19 There are exceptions. There are things like bitters, I think, that can work really well. Sometimes people can take a Nervine formula as needed. So you can just take a teaspoon as needed and it doesn't quite add up the same financially speaking. But this is one reason that I heavily rely on teas, decoctions and infusions, because I find that many people prefer them in terms of the finances. And I prefer them in terms of the hydration, the interaction with the herbs, taking the time to sit down and have a hot beverage or a cold beverage if you're going to ice it. But still, I like that for clients as well. Okay, so those are the things that I'm thinking about. Can I get enough of a dose in? is it feasible for this person financially?

7:02 Is it too much alcohol that I feel like it might be upsetting their system in some way if we're going to be using the kinds of doses I'm looking for? And do I have any availability of doing a more concentrated extract that's one-to-one, one-to-two, one-to-three, something like that, where we can get the dose in range? I know there are lots of people out there who use drop dosing or half a dropper, a dropper full, and find results. And if that is true for you or your clients, I think that's amazing. I just haven't found in my own practice that we really can get the full effects of the herb until we get up there in the slightly higher range of dosing.

7:45 And for alcohol, unfortunately, just because of the cost of the alcohol, for alcohol extracts, that does mean it can be quite expensive. Okay, so I hope that helps. Obviously, this is a nuanced conversation, and there are very different dosing strategies. we have everything from drop dosing to extremely high, you know, 10, 15, 20 grams a day kind of dosing and beyond. So it's no wonder that people feel confused. Sometimes it seems easier to just use a, you know, pre-made product and go with what it says on the bottle. But a lot of times what it says on the bottle is very different from what you were trained in using. So how do you handle all of these discrepancies when it comes to advising your own clients and formulating for yourself.

8:28 All right, so I'm going to share my thoughts. I do not mean to imply that this is the right way or the way that you should do it, but just in case it's helpful to give you some perspective to think about or to hear one way of doing things. When I am thinking about dosing, and we're going to really focus in here on the dosing of compounded or formulated herbal extracts. We'll set aside capsules, powders, infusions, decoctions, things like that for right now. Let's just focus on our tinctures and extracts, fluid extracts, liquid extracts. When I'm thinking about these and how I want to dose them, there's a couple of factors that come into play for me. Number one is I want to make sure the client is getting a high enough dose so that there's a chance of a meaningful change.

9:14 If we're, in my opinion, if we're using an herb that's a great fit for them, but the dose isn't big enough to make a difference, it's really just a waste of money and their time. Of course, some people respond to very low doses. We'll get into that in a second. But my first concern is, can I get enough of this herb into this person to really give it a shot and see if it's going to help them? So that's piece number one. Let's dive into that for a second. How do we figure out what is enough? This is where I think there's a lot of variability, a lot of different opinions about what do we mean by enough to make a difference. Clearly, some people are very susceptible to low doses of substances. I usually try to ask a couple questions around, are you particularly sensitive to caffeine?

9:57 Are you somebody who, you know, can take half or a quarter of a dose of a regular pain-relieving medication or something like that, and it barely, you know, it takes everything away? Or are you somebody where you really need kind of a big whack? Now, to a certain degree, this is variable based on medication, but you can sometimes get a feel for whether the person is extremely sensitive or maybe a little bit more resistant than your average bear. So try to take that into account. But also, in my training and what I've experienced in working with clients over, you know, 20 years or whatever it's been now, I feel that for most herbs, and again, there are exceptions in either direction.

10:37 But for most herbs, I think a bare minimum is going to be somewhere in the range of two to five grams a day that you're going to want to use to see if it's helping. Again, if you don't have training in herbal medicine or supplements, please look these things up. But for the most part, people who do have a background in herbs will understand what I'm speaking about here. So generally speaking, I want to see people getting something in that range to know if we're going to make a difference. So how do we extrapolate that into a liquid formula? Well, what I do is I look at the ratio. So if it's a 1 to 5 formula, which many of them are, not all, that means there's 1 gram of herb in 5 milliliters of the formula.

11:22 So in that case, if we wanted to give that herb a good shot at its lowest possible dose, we would want to have about two grams, which is 10 milliliters or two teaspoons. So if I want to use three or four herbs, sometimes you can lower the dose a little bit. For example, if you have two or three different nervine herbs that are all working in a similar direction and overlapping, maybe you don't need two grams of each one of them, but maybe you're looking for three or four grams total of all of them. You can see that if you start to get into a multi-part formula, you might be like, oh, well, what does that look like? Do I need to have three or four grams of each herb in the formula? No, not necessarily.

12:04 But I do think if you're looking at a multi-part formula, you probably do want at least, say, four or five grams of the whole thing together. Again, depending on what it is. So what is that looking like? Well, if it's a one to five tincture, then you're going to need 25 milliliters of the tincture to get yourself in the range of five grams. And that's a lot. That's almost an ounce of extract every single day to get yourself a reasonable dose. So for many people, that's not feasible, either financially or taste-wise or just alcohol. You know, it's a lot of alcohol to be taking on board for some people for various reasons. So if that's the case, maybe an extract isn't quite where you want to go, or you can look for products that have more concentration.

12:52 So instead of a 1-5, a 1-3, a one-to-two, or even a one-to-one extract might be available where you are. And in those cases, you can lower the dose. If it's a one-to-one extract, you only need one milliliter to get the equivalent of one gram. So that's what I'm thinking about. And when people come to work with me and I recommend an extract, I'm usually recommending either 10 mils or 15 mils a day and sometimes more. And that's often, unless somebody is going to make it themselves, that's often not financially super feasible. There are exceptions. There are things like bitters, I think, that can work really well. Sometimes people can take a Nervine formula as needed.

13:34 So you can just take a teaspoon as needed and it doesn't quite add up the same financially speaking. But this is one reason that I heavily rely on teas, decoctions and infusions. Because I find that many people prefer them in terms of the finances. And I prefer them in terms of the hydration, the interaction with the herbs, taking the time to sit down and have a hot beverage or cold beverage if you're going to ice it. But still, I like that. for clients as well. Okay, so those are the things that I'm thinking about. Can I get enough of a dose in? Is it feasible for this person financially? Is it too much alcohol that I feel like it might be upsetting their system in some way if we're going to be using the kinds of doses I'm looking for?

14:18 And do I have any availability of doing a more concentrated extract that's one-to-one, one-to-two, one-to-three, something like that, where we can get the dose in range? I know there are lots of people out there who use drop dosing or half a dropper, a dropper full, and find results. And if that is true for you or your clients, I think that's amazing. I just haven't found in my own practice that we really can get the full effects of the herb until we get up there in the. Slightly higher range of dosing. And for alcohol, unfortunately, just because of the cost of the alcohol, for alcohol extracts, that does mean it can be quite expensive.

15:02 Okay, so I hope that helps. Obviously, this is a nuanced conversation, and there is a lot to say. So I'm just giving a loose framework of how you might think about dosing and why, if you come and do one of my observation groups or hear me present a case study or something like that, you might think, wow, the doses you're using are higher, a lot higher than what I might do. And that's just kind of my rationale for what I've seen and how things work for me in my practice. All right. I hope that was helpful. If you have a question, I would love to hear it. Please feel free to go to intheclinic.com. You can submit questions there. You can email me. I also wanted to let you know that I do have a practitioner notes email list that goes out every Thursday.

15:46 If you are not on it, I would love to have you join us. You can join from intheclinic.com or my main website, camillefreeman.com. They both have sign-up forms right there on the front page. And if you sign up, you will hear from me every single Thursday with some thoughts. I send recommendations about interesting recipes, articles, tools, tasks, things like that. Anything that's on my mind, I send that out. And I'd love to connect with you there. All right, have a lovely rest of your day, and I will talk to you soon.