98 | Creating an Herbal Zine

WEBVTT

00:00:00.017 --> 00:00:03.957
Hi there. Welcome to In the Clinic with Camille. My name is Camille Freeman.

00:00:04.197 --> 00:00:07.797
I'm an herbalist and nutritionist. And in this podcast, I share little tips

00:00:07.797 --> 00:00:10.497
and tidbits that might be helpful for other practitioners.

00:00:11.037 --> 00:00:15.977
So today, I'm really excited to share an interview that I did recently with

00:00:15.977 --> 00:00:21.017
Julia Orchero Bianco and Megan Hinshaw about a zine that they created.

00:00:21.277 --> 00:00:25.377
Now, you might be thinking, Camille, I'm a practitioner and it sounds interesting,

00:00:25.517 --> 00:00:27.557
but I'm not totally sure why this is relevant for me.

00:00:28.177 --> 00:00:30.857
And if that is the case, I really encourage you to listen to the conversation

00:00:30.857 --> 00:00:37.037
because we get into topics about how this piece of art came into the world,

00:00:37.037 --> 00:00:40.137
how it fits into clinical and community work,

00:00:40.357 --> 00:00:43.217
the process of collaboration, the process of research,

00:00:43.497 --> 00:00:47.917
the overlap of art and clinical work and even more.

00:00:47.917 --> 00:00:51.537
So I hope you're going to enjoy this conversation as much as I did.

00:00:51.877 --> 00:00:54.957
And I hope you'll check out the zine and see if it might be something that you

00:00:54.957 --> 00:00:57.637
would like to have in your life as well.

00:00:57.857 --> 00:01:00.677
I'll put the links to everything in the show notes.

00:01:00.757 --> 00:01:05.237
But before I share the interview, I just wanted to read a brief bio for Julia

00:01:05.237 --> 00:01:07.737
and Megan, in case you don't already know either one of them.

00:01:08.217 --> 00:01:13.977
So Julia Orquera Bianco was born in Argentina, lived in Mexico before moving to the U.S. in 2016.

00:01:14.557 --> 00:01:21.477
She earned a BFA from the Universidad del Museo Social Argentino in 2012.

00:01:21.477 --> 00:01:23.977
My pronunciation, I'm so sorry, but I'm doing my best.

00:01:24.237 --> 00:01:26.677
In 2018, she graduated from the MFA.

00:01:27.568 --> 00:01:31.668
Program at Roski School of Art and Design, which is from the University of Southern

00:01:31.668 --> 00:01:32.748
California in Los Angeles.

00:01:32.988 --> 00:01:36.088
She earned a certificate in sustainability from UCLA in 2020.

00:01:36.388 --> 00:01:40.428
She was a medicinal plant conservation intern at UPS in 2022,

00:01:40.428 --> 00:01:45.988
and she earned a certificate in permaculture design from the Cincinnati Permaculture Institute in 2023.

00:01:47.248 --> 00:01:52.048
Julia is an amazing artist. She interrogates modern Western culture,

00:01:52.268 --> 00:01:56.148
collective memory, and migration through the lens of being a guest on the land.

00:01:56.728 --> 00:02:00.608
Identity becomes an experience rather than a concept, and her work draws from

00:02:00.608 --> 00:02:04.748
her family and cultural heritage and from her practice with plants to craft

00:02:04.748 --> 00:02:09.948
stories where past, present, and place come together, redefining notions of belonging.

00:02:10.388 --> 00:02:13.928
And I think you'll see that in some of the art in the zine if you have a chance

00:02:13.928 --> 00:02:15.228
to have a look. It's absolutely gorgeous.

00:02:15.848 --> 00:02:19.968
And then Megan Henshaw is a Cincinnati-based herbalist and educator with a background

00:02:19.968 --> 00:02:22.548
in herbal science, ethnobotany, and plant cultivation.

00:02:22.988 --> 00:02:26.968
She currently teaches medicinal plant classes, has an active clinical practice,

00:02:27.128 --> 00:02:31.308
and makes small batch products using plants she grows in a community garden in the city.

00:02:31.548 --> 00:02:35.628
So again, all the contact information for both of these guests is in the show

00:02:35.628 --> 00:02:40.308
notes, as well as info on how to order the zine, and I hope you enjoy the conversation.

00:02:41.548 --> 00:02:45.608
All right. So I'm so excited to jump in and learn more about this zine.

00:02:45.848 --> 00:02:49.908
Megan and Julia, thank you so much for joining us to talk more about it.

00:02:50.088 --> 00:02:52.908
I want to start with what is probably a really basic question,

00:02:53.068 --> 00:02:55.528
but I suspect some folks may not know.

00:02:55.728 --> 00:02:58.488
Could you just tell us what is a zine?

00:02:59.368 --> 00:03:04.788
Yeah. So zines are just really easy to print, usually small booklets,

00:03:04.868 --> 00:03:06.888
although the format is really versatile.

00:03:07.208 --> 00:03:11.788
I'm like, I have a zine that's kind of shaped like a pizza that It unfolds in kind of an unusual way.

00:03:11.888 --> 00:03:15.388
But usually, you know, it's easiest to picture like an eight and a half by 11

00:03:15.388 --> 00:03:18.648
sheet of paper that's folded in half, multiple sheets, you know,

00:03:18.808 --> 00:03:20.548
stapled in the middle or sewn.

00:03:20.768 --> 00:03:26.008
It's really has deep roots in do-it-yourself culture, counterculture movements,

00:03:26.028 --> 00:03:31.008
because it's so accessible, really inexpensive to make, and so flexible.

00:03:31.008 --> 00:03:35.188
You just need very minimal supplies, you know, a printer or access to a public

00:03:35.188 --> 00:03:39.168
library, scissors, paper, you know, and you can kind of do your own thing.

00:03:40.088 --> 00:03:44.048
Very cool. So could you share a little bit about this particular zine?

00:03:44.128 --> 00:03:47.568
The reason that you're here to talk to us on the podcast is that you have a

00:03:47.568 --> 00:03:51.128
zine that's coming out really soon, depending on when people listen to this.

00:03:51.328 --> 00:03:52.608
It might already be out in the world.

00:03:52.928 --> 00:03:58.468
So tell us about your particular zine and what it is, how it came into the world,

00:03:58.668 --> 00:04:01.588
who it's for, kind of your vision for this project.

00:04:02.947 --> 00:04:08.587
Yeah, thank you for that question. Yeah, so this scene is born from conversation,

00:04:08.787 --> 00:04:10.947
actually, between Megan and I.

00:04:11.667 --> 00:04:16.587
Megan had this idea of highlighting seven plants that grow in the Ohio River

00:04:16.587 --> 00:04:23.167
Valley, and I have been pretty involved with nature printing using cyanotype technique.

00:04:23.167 --> 00:04:30.987
So we were discussing ways to bring this into life, and that took us to applying

00:04:30.987 --> 00:04:34.807
for the Loyola Berish Fellowship and getting it.

00:04:34.987 --> 00:04:42.587
And then it became a whole, a very mature project with many elements that we were not envisioning.

00:04:42.587 --> 00:04:48.267
Yeah, so the zine itself is really focusing on the botanical illustration.

00:04:48.807 --> 00:04:53.667
The history of eclectic medical use, and contemporary herbalism,

00:04:54.047 --> 00:04:57.707
predominantly from female herbalists, female-identified herbalists.

00:04:57.827 --> 00:05:00.487
And it really focuses on seven plants.

00:05:00.647 --> 00:05:04.847
So, calendula, whorehound, motherwort, sage, tobacco, tulsi,

00:05:05.087 --> 00:05:09.607
and valerian. And so these are all plants that I grow in a community garden

00:05:09.607 --> 00:05:11.947
that's in a neighborhood pretty close to where I live.

00:05:12.007 --> 00:05:17.107
And I've had the honor of stewarding this piece of land with others for a little,

00:05:17.347 --> 00:05:19.867
I think this was maybe the sixth season now.

00:05:20.067 --> 00:05:24.327
But it's really set up as a living classroom. And we've been harvesting these

00:05:24.327 --> 00:05:28.207
plants to use in some of my small batch products that I make.

00:05:28.387 --> 00:05:32.887
And there's a crew of volunteers that come every week in the growing season.

00:05:32.887 --> 00:05:36.967
And so these plants are plants that we harvest the seeds from,

00:05:36.987 --> 00:05:38.927
and I have created a seed mix.

00:05:39.087 --> 00:05:44.167
And so that's kind of the crux of how we decided to focus on these seven plants,

00:05:44.267 --> 00:05:47.447
that this is a seed mix that's available to the public.

00:05:47.667 --> 00:05:53.067
And Holly and I really delved deeply into these plants and their application.

00:05:54.233 --> 00:05:58.553
So cool. So the idea is that somebody from your community could come and have

00:05:58.553 --> 00:06:02.313
some of the seed mix and then learn about the plants that are part of it,

00:06:02.453 --> 00:06:05.913
that they probably could grow pretty easily themselves if they have space and access.

00:06:06.673 --> 00:06:11.293
Yeah, exactly. And, you know, the zine itself is a standalone source of information.

00:06:11.553 --> 00:06:16.393
If folks are just, you know, interested in botanical illustration and female

00:06:16.393 --> 00:06:21.913
botany, female botanists and, you know, what grows in this part of the world

00:06:21.913 --> 00:06:24.073
is a really interesting text.

00:06:24.233 --> 00:06:27.453
But also you know if you have these plants growing in

00:06:27.453 --> 00:06:30.213
your yard you know you can read about how you

00:06:30.213 --> 00:06:33.373
can use them because you know there's information on harvesting and

00:06:33.373 --> 00:06:38.353
cultivation and medicinal application and medicine making it's all included

00:06:38.353 --> 00:06:42.653
in the zine yeah and i will just throw in here that i got a little sneak peek

00:06:42.653 --> 00:06:47.153
of the zine before we started recording and it's a beautiful work of art even

00:06:47.153 --> 00:06:52.133
if you know you may not have access to all these plants i think just having it in your space.

00:06:52.273 --> 00:06:57.073
That's probably a lovely way to brighten things up a little bit. So that's really great.

00:06:57.373 --> 00:07:02.833
So tell us more about how this is connected with United Plant Savers.

00:07:03.293 --> 00:07:05.553
Because I know you said you got the Lloyd Library Fellowship.

00:07:05.633 --> 00:07:09.933
People might like to hear just a teeny bit about that and like who else might want to apply for it.

00:07:10.033 --> 00:07:13.953
But then also, how does this relate to UPS and what they do?

00:07:14.803 --> 00:07:19.203
So, Julie and I both have really deep roots and connections with the United Plant Savers.

00:07:19.603 --> 00:07:22.723
So, United Plant Savers, for folks that don't necessarily know,

00:07:22.863 --> 00:07:25.783
is a conservation organization that's based in eastern Ohio,

00:07:25.783 --> 00:07:27.603
but they have very far reaches.

00:07:27.803 --> 00:07:33.303
So, there's an at-risk plant list, which is kind of the entry point for a lot of herbalists.

00:07:33.563 --> 00:07:37.103
I know that, you know, when I went to Bastyr University, I learned about the

00:07:37.103 --> 00:07:40.683
at-risk plant list and really thinking about formulations and sustainability

00:07:40.683 --> 00:07:45.723
and, you know, the chain of sourcing medicinal plants.

00:07:45.883 --> 00:07:51.903
And so UPS is kind of who started that and created this list that other herbalists

00:07:51.903 --> 00:07:54.983
and companies can look to for guidance around,

00:07:55.163 --> 00:07:59.403
you know, what plants are most in trouble that, you know, maybe if you have

00:07:59.403 --> 00:08:03.843
space to cultivate, these are things that you can focus on cultivating things

00:08:03.843 --> 00:08:07.863
like black cohosh, blue cohosh, that sort of thing if you use them in your formulations.

00:08:08.343 --> 00:08:14.623
So, you know, I spend time at the UPS Sanctuary in Eastern Ohio annually just

00:08:14.623 --> 00:08:15.943
as part of my business retreat,

00:08:16.163 --> 00:08:19.603
which basically just means I get to hang out in a yurt and work on business

00:08:19.603 --> 00:08:23.143
things and walk around the woods and think about medicinal plants and kind of,

00:08:23.223 --> 00:08:29.463
you know, check in with myself about if I want to do new projects or how have things been going and,

00:08:29.903 --> 00:08:32.943
you know, looking at Excel spreadsheets, but then And also like laying around

00:08:32.943 --> 00:08:34.083
and drinking coffee, you know.

00:08:34.623 --> 00:08:39.383
And we were introduced, Hulia and I were introduced via the plant steward,

00:08:39.523 --> 00:08:41.063
the sanctuary steward, Chip Carroll.

00:08:41.403 --> 00:08:46.663
Because he knew that we were both in Cincinnati and knew that we were just compatible.

00:08:46.663 --> 00:08:48.523
And he was completely right.

00:08:49.561 --> 00:08:54.681
Yeah, I would say to add to that, CHIP has a pretty good human sensor.

00:08:55.141 --> 00:09:02.581
I actually got introduced to UPS via an online course on foraging that I took

00:09:02.581 --> 00:09:08.141
during the pandemic. It's a very pandemic kind of thing to do by the Herbal Academy.

00:09:08.341 --> 00:09:13.601
And that's how I found out about UPS. At that point, I was living in California.

00:09:14.121 --> 00:09:18.981
And I did a little bit of research and became really interested.

00:09:18.981 --> 00:09:23.981
In a program that they have it's an internship which is a certificate in medicinal

00:09:23.981 --> 00:09:29.601
plant conservation so we started a bit of a conversation about that they were

00:09:29.601 --> 00:09:35.001
because of the pandemic they were not really hosting that but I ended up becoming

00:09:35.001 --> 00:09:36.941
a deep ecology artist fellow.

00:09:37.961 --> 00:09:43.781
Or deep ecology fellow which is basically their version of an artist in residence

00:09:43.781 --> 00:09:49.241
program I spent two weeks there and honestly, because of UPS,

00:09:49.421 --> 00:09:51.061
I moved from California to Ohio.

00:09:51.281 --> 00:09:59.381
So UPS is a big deal in my life and I became familiar with the Ohio flora and

00:09:59.381 --> 00:10:03.361
in 2022, I actually took the internship.

00:10:03.721 --> 00:10:09.581
And I think around that time between 2022 and 2023 was when Megan and I connected and,

00:10:10.185 --> 00:10:14.845
Got it. What a beautiful story. And so as I understand it, the two of you already

00:10:14.845 --> 00:10:16.105
kind of had a relationship.

00:10:16.405 --> 00:10:19.805
You already knew each other before the zine came about.

00:10:19.985 --> 00:10:23.585
So this comes up a lot, I think, in the herbal world where we know each other,

00:10:23.665 --> 00:10:25.025
we are friends or what have you.

00:10:25.185 --> 00:10:29.445
We already have relationships with people. And then it's always an interesting

00:10:29.445 --> 00:10:33.445
thing to collaborate with people in a more like work-focused environment.

00:10:33.785 --> 00:10:39.525
So how was it to work together on this project, kind of moving from that,

00:10:40.105 --> 00:10:43.325
that, you know, kind of like, oh, we know each other and in this one way,

00:10:43.445 --> 00:10:45.905
and then taking it to a different level. How did that go?

00:10:46.585 --> 00:10:52.005
Well, we collaborated on kind of right off the bat when we first connected,

00:10:52.005 --> 00:10:59.385
because Julio was doing a series of programs to connect with Burnett Woods,

00:10:59.585 --> 00:11:03.145
which is the woods that's kind of a couple neighborhoods over from where I live

00:11:03.145 --> 00:11:05.265
and close to where Julia lives.

00:11:05.425 --> 00:11:10.545
And so I ended up teaching a class for this program that Julia was doing.

00:11:10.765 --> 00:11:15.845
And there was a moment in which there were some other people that kind of like

00:11:15.845 --> 00:11:20.185
got into the whole mix of the conversation and it made things really sticky.

00:11:20.565 --> 00:11:25.645
And so Julia and I, even though we didn't, I mean, we had had tea together and,

00:11:25.845 --> 00:11:28.625
you know, we obviously kind of naturally connected, but it

00:11:28.625 --> 00:11:31.985
really kind of forced our hands to have these harder conversations

00:11:31.985 --> 00:11:34.825
in the beginning because of the sticky situation involving these

00:11:34.825 --> 00:11:40.925
other folks and so it was at that point that I really was more aware of how

00:11:40.925 --> 00:11:47.445
clear our connection was and how complimentary our styles were and then we just

00:11:47.445 --> 00:11:52.225
kind of had more and more conversations and talking about originally I think.

00:11:53.027 --> 00:11:57.627
Yeah, we were talking about doing a zine together and, you know,

00:11:57.747 --> 00:11:59.527
what would that look like?

00:11:59.747 --> 00:12:04.547
And then the fellowship kind of came up as a way of funding this project.

00:12:04.727 --> 00:12:09.067
And, you know, also was really professionally of interest for both of us because

00:12:09.067 --> 00:12:13.807
of just how, you know, how we move through the world and being connected in Cincinnati.

00:12:13.927 --> 00:12:18.027
The Lloyd Library is a really big deal throughout the world because it's the

00:12:18.027 --> 00:12:22.187
largest repository of botanically related text in the Northern Hemisphere.

00:12:22.187 --> 00:12:25.887
But people in Cincinnati don't necessarily know about it, you know,

00:12:25.987 --> 00:12:28.207
because it looks like you would pay your parking ticket there.

00:12:28.347 --> 00:12:30.087
Like, it's a very nondescript building.

00:12:30.287 --> 00:12:37.127
Like, you just, I mean, I probably drove by it for 25 years before I even knew what was there.

00:12:37.867 --> 00:12:42.987
So, it was really exciting to think about, you know, how we could delve into

00:12:42.987 --> 00:12:45.047
the archive at the library.

00:12:45.467 --> 00:12:49.167
And, you know, I've been doing independent research at the Lloyd for probably

00:12:49.167 --> 00:12:54.267
15 years now through a lot of different projects with herbal companies and other

00:12:54.267 --> 00:12:59.727
things, but I've never had an opportunity to be in the private staff where they keep all the books.

00:12:59.887 --> 00:13:02.847
And so it was also really exciting to think like, okay, well,

00:13:03.267 --> 00:13:06.747
we get a fellowship and it means that we get to go in the elevator and go behind

00:13:06.747 --> 00:13:10.847
the scenes and, you know, see so much beyond what,

00:13:10.987 --> 00:13:15.027
you know, the, what's in the written catalog or what's in the very sort of concise

00:13:15.027 --> 00:13:19.007
library that's accessible to the public in the more open area in the,

00:13:19.027 --> 00:13:19.907
in the front of the library.

00:13:21.287 --> 00:13:24.587
Yeah. And to add to that, I would say it's true.

00:13:24.727 --> 00:13:29.467
Now that I'm thinking about, Megan, about the past, we actually collaborated.

00:13:30.027 --> 00:13:34.767
I put together a little scene and you remember that you made like these seed

00:13:34.767 --> 00:13:37.367
packets also for like a workshop that I was invited to.

00:13:37.467 --> 00:13:42.907
So we were already kind of working together in one capacity or another since

00:13:42.907 --> 00:13:44.207
we pretty much since we met.

00:13:44.767 --> 00:13:47.427
I would say maybe to add to that, we...

00:13:48.022 --> 00:13:51.822
This is a multi-month. This is a very long project.

00:13:52.102 --> 00:13:59.302
We started actually working on the application, I want to say, maybe 18 months ago.

00:13:59.742 --> 00:14:04.782
And then we had a lot of conversations. Once we, many like interviews and conversations,

00:14:04.982 --> 00:14:07.262
and we were like finessing the project.

00:14:07.682 --> 00:14:10.862
And also, you know, again, in conversation with Deloitte.

00:14:11.782 --> 00:14:18.222
And then we did the fellowship, which took about two to three months.

00:14:18.222 --> 00:14:21.442
So we were spending a lot of time together also at the library,

00:14:21.662 --> 00:14:27.162
sharing our findings and kind of, yeah, just like really a lot of,

00:14:27.302 --> 00:14:31.522
we gathered a lot of fun facts and really interesting stories,

00:14:31.522 --> 00:14:35.682
but also trying to figure out other more like logistical things.

00:14:35.682 --> 00:14:41.602
And I think throughout all that time, we had lots of different conversations

00:14:41.602 --> 00:14:46.602
and we went through different stages that both involved our professional collaboration

00:14:46.602 --> 00:14:47.622
and also our friendship.

00:14:48.062 --> 00:14:55.362
And it's been very, I don't know, expansive, I would say, because I read somewhere

00:14:55.362 --> 00:15:02.902
that we should always work with friends because there's already a relationship of mutual care.

00:15:02.902 --> 00:15:09.302
And I would say that, yeah, it's been a very, very expansive experience,

00:15:09.302 --> 00:15:12.202
definitely for me, I think for both of us.

00:15:12.322 --> 00:15:18.522
And again, the end result is just this beautiful labor of love that came from

00:15:18.522 --> 00:15:21.322
like very committed research.

00:15:22.420 --> 00:15:26.900
And, you know, as part of the fellowship, you know, you have to do 20 hours

00:15:26.900 --> 00:15:30.220
of in-person research. I mean, that's if you're a single applicant.

00:15:30.640 --> 00:15:35.280
But, you know, since Julie and I were applying together for a mutual project,

00:15:35.620 --> 00:15:39.300
you know, we got to decide amongst ourselves, like, how we wanted to split up those hours.

00:15:39.300 --> 00:15:44.260
But, you know, we very much prioritized, if we could, if it worked for our schedule,

00:15:44.480 --> 00:15:51.100
to do the, you know, to be working side by side, to be co-working as we're looking through our own books.

00:15:51.280 --> 00:15:54.800
So, you know, the way that the library has it set up is that they've got this

00:15:54.800 --> 00:15:57.900
big desk that's kind of tucked back into the corner.

00:15:58.120 --> 00:16:03.640
And so, you know, we would select books or send the list to the librarians and

00:16:03.640 --> 00:16:07.180
then have this cart. And so we would have our own kind of shelves on the cart

00:16:07.180 --> 00:16:08.880
with all the things that we're looking at.

00:16:09.300 --> 00:16:14.600
And these, you know, kind of beanbags to put the books on that are called book couches.

00:16:15.280 --> 00:16:21.240
And it was really cool because we just would come across some really funny stuff.

00:16:21.820 --> 00:16:25.460
And we would be able to talk about it and laugh about it.

00:16:25.540 --> 00:16:30.040
And it was just, it was more, it was more fun, you know, having the two of us there.

00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:33.020
And, you know, we would both do our own thing if we had a deadline,

00:16:33.160 --> 00:16:37.180
if it's something that we needed to, you know, sort out or delve into,

00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:39.140
you know, we would be there on our own, too.

00:16:39.340 --> 00:16:43.440
But I think it was definitely a highlight working next to each other at the

00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:47.220
table and showing each other some of the things that we found.

00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:52.560
Sounds really fun. I know we don't have time for like a full comprehensive overview

00:16:52.560 --> 00:16:58.680
of your research, but can you share some highlights from what you learned or,

00:16:59.180 --> 00:17:01.700
figured out or some of the things that happened at the Lloyd Library?

00:17:02.714 --> 00:17:09.934
Sure. Yeah. So for me, the idea within the collaboration, my part would be to

00:17:09.934 --> 00:17:13.994
create these illustrations and really delve into nature printing.

00:17:13.994 --> 00:17:20.034
But that evolved as an artist's research can be very creative.

00:17:20.754 --> 00:17:24.534
So I actually ended up learning a lot about nature printing,

00:17:24.894 --> 00:17:29.914
especially the history of the cyanotype technique, which is the photography.

00:17:29.914 --> 00:17:35.954
It's the oldest photo-based technique that exists thus far.

00:17:36.294 --> 00:17:42.034
And also, I became really interested in the role of women in the history of

00:17:42.034 --> 00:17:47.294
botany as it was being considered as a science.

00:17:47.434 --> 00:17:54.374
So I read a lot about the 18th century and the Enlightenment in relationship

00:17:54.374 --> 00:17:58.114
with the creation of botany as a science.

00:17:58.114 --> 00:18:07.994
And then how women were such crucial figures in the creation of cultural production,

00:18:07.994 --> 00:18:11.994
both in terms of the illustrations, but also with their labor, right?

00:18:12.314 --> 00:18:20.394
So gathering specimens, sometimes finding new specimens, identifying through

00:18:20.394 --> 00:18:26.254
conversation, and really because of their work.

00:18:27.164 --> 00:18:33.904
Assisting their husbands or their fathers or other men, most of these women

00:18:33.904 --> 00:18:39.744
have been invisible in the history of botany.

00:18:40.064 --> 00:18:44.244
So I became really, really intrigued by that. And, you know,

00:18:44.324 --> 00:18:46.564
there's a lot that I can talk about about that.

00:18:46.724 --> 00:18:50.984
But the last thing is, to me, as an artist, understanding.

00:18:52.024 --> 00:18:57.264
Botanical illustration and design and where all that comes from and all the

00:18:57.264 --> 00:19:03.064
different ways that are used to depict and describe plants in a visual form

00:19:03.064 --> 00:19:08.564
and thinking about illustration as another mode of cultural production that

00:19:08.564 --> 00:19:12.004
can also stand on itself and that it became really,

00:19:12.124 --> 00:19:17.924
really important in the field of botany since it's such an important part of

00:19:17.924 --> 00:19:21.284
learning about plants. That would be my take on that.

00:19:22.004 --> 00:19:26.104
And for me, I think one of the things that stood out to me the strongest of

00:19:26.104 --> 00:19:30.164
the research that I did was how much alignment there is between contemporary

00:19:30.164 --> 00:19:35.144
modern application of these seven particular plants and how the eclectic doctors used them.

00:19:35.664 --> 00:19:39.944
You know, some of these books were written in the 1800s, early 1900s.

00:19:40.144 --> 00:19:43.544
And, you know, I know that some of these same books that I was referencing,

00:19:44.104 --> 00:19:49.144
you know, there's very respected herbal companies that use those in their formulation

00:19:49.144 --> 00:19:53.544
and like R&D department, you know, when they're looking at kind of what plants to investigate.

00:19:53.764 --> 00:19:58.944
But it was just really cool to see that, you know, here were these eclectic

00:19:58.944 --> 00:20:03.644
doctors that were kind of the precursors to modern day naturopaths.

00:20:03.664 --> 00:20:09.624
And they were doing very meticulous extraction of medicinal plants and they

00:20:09.624 --> 00:20:13.204
were using them in a clinical setting, you know, and, you know,

00:20:13.284 --> 00:20:14.824
they were knowledgeable about the,

00:20:15.435 --> 00:20:21.375
Lots of very advanced topics around formulation and extraction.

00:20:22.295 --> 00:20:27.415
You know, dangers of internal tobacco use, you know, different dosages of valerian

00:20:27.415 --> 00:20:30.875
and their effects on the body if it's stimulating or relaxing.

00:20:31.135 --> 00:20:35.375
But there was a lot of alignment between the eclectics and how,

00:20:35.555 --> 00:20:40.615
you know, current herbalists like Mimi Hernandez and Lucretia Van Dyke and others

00:20:40.615 --> 00:20:44.735
use the herbs now, in particular with the seven that we looked at.

00:20:45.682 --> 00:20:51.542
Yeah, really, really interesting stuff. It sounds like it was an adventure in many ways.

00:20:52.022 --> 00:20:55.242
I'm wondering, since we're already on the topic, could you share just a little

00:20:55.242 --> 00:20:58.942
bit about the Lloyd Library? If other people are like, oh, wow,

00:20:59.002 --> 00:21:00.402
I didn't even know that existed.

00:21:00.822 --> 00:21:07.562
Are there ways that artists and herbalists could learn there also or take advantage

00:21:07.562 --> 00:21:08.982
of some of the resources that are there?

00:21:09.122 --> 00:21:13.582
Like, how would you recommend that we interface with that space and resource?

00:21:13.582 --> 00:21:19.222
Yeah, the Lloyd Library is an incredible resource for herbalists and artists alike.

00:21:19.482 --> 00:21:23.802
I did a whole talk at the International Herbal Symposium this past,

00:21:23.942 --> 00:21:26.482
I guess, 2025 in the fall.

00:21:26.722 --> 00:21:29.942
And so that's recorded on the Lloyd Library's YouTube channel.

00:21:29.942 --> 00:21:33.982
And that goes through, you know, how you can engage with the archive,

00:21:34.322 --> 00:21:39.202
both in person in Cincinnati, as well as if you're a researcher.

00:21:39.702 --> 00:21:44.562
An herbalist, an artist that's wanting to kind of work with the collection from further afield.

00:21:44.782 --> 00:21:50.662
But I mean, the Lloyd Library has been around for, you know, yeah, a long time.

00:21:50.942 --> 00:21:55.362
It originally started as the private library of the Lloyd brothers who were

00:21:55.362 --> 00:21:57.062
pharmacists in Cincinnati.

00:21:57.062 --> 00:22:00.122
All three of them were pharmacists and one of

00:22:00.122 --> 00:22:03.222
them in particular taught a lot at the eclectic medical

00:22:03.222 --> 00:22:06.402
institution which was or the institute eclectic

00:22:06.402 --> 00:22:11.362
medical institute here in cincinnati and so there was a lot of collaboration

00:22:11.362 --> 00:22:15.002
between the brothers too and that there was one brother that kind of took care

00:22:15.002 --> 00:22:19.502
of like the more businessy stuff one brother that worked on the extraction that

00:22:19.502 --> 00:22:21.122
was john urey lloyd who's probably

00:22:21.122 --> 00:22:24.342
the most predominantly known and then there was curtis Gates Lloyd,

00:22:24.542 --> 00:22:27.262
who traveled a lot and really acquired all these texts.

00:22:27.442 --> 00:22:30.762
So he, you know, was on these old ships and, you know, these different port

00:22:30.762 --> 00:22:34.162
towns all over the world would know him. And so they would hold books for him.

00:22:34.282 --> 00:22:36.282
And then, you know, he would bring them back to.

00:22:37.698 --> 00:22:42.298
And so the Lloyd Library and Museum, you know, they have private stacks.

00:22:42.318 --> 00:22:45.918
And so you really have to utilize the online catalog to look up anything,

00:22:46.078 --> 00:22:49.298
although there are some books that are available on the floor.

00:22:49.478 --> 00:22:53.038
You can't check anything out, but you can take things off the shelves or you

00:22:53.038 --> 00:22:55.998
can request the librarians to pull information for you.

00:22:55.998 --> 00:23:01.178
And it's, you know, if you're interested in acupuncture and horticulture and

00:23:01.178 --> 00:23:05.118
medicinal plants and chemistry, all of that,

00:23:05.238 --> 00:23:09.218
you know, there's it's an amazing resource to be able to have these primary

00:23:09.218 --> 00:23:12.598
sources that are physically all in one place because we don't really have an

00:23:12.598 --> 00:23:15.798
opportunity to do that kind of research as much.

00:23:16.538 --> 00:23:19.918
So there's lots of applications for herbalists and herbal teachers.

00:23:19.918 --> 00:23:24.318
You can do single topic research for classes, for writing articles.

00:23:24.318 --> 00:23:28.518
You can do, you know, branding research because there's just so many gorgeous

00:23:28.518 --> 00:23:30.838
books that are in the stacks.

00:23:31.118 --> 00:23:34.938
There's, you know, plant identification techniques because a lot of these older

00:23:34.938 --> 00:23:40.518
books, they didn't have mass chromatography or, you know, gas chromatography or mass spec.

00:23:40.518 --> 00:23:44.778
You know, so they had to all be about the senses. And so you can look at these

00:23:44.778 --> 00:23:49.718
old books that were all about plant identification using just your physical senses.

00:23:50.098 --> 00:23:56.058
So it's a really rich place. And it's a great place to learn about American

00:23:56.058 --> 00:24:00.578
herbal history, because we have a lot, a lot happening here on this continent.

00:24:00.578 --> 00:24:09.538
And I think for artists, especially artists who are interested in ecology or

00:24:09.538 --> 00:24:13.478
botany or anything that involves plants, really,

00:24:14.138 --> 00:24:17.738
Deloitte is a great resource because I would say...

00:24:19.090 --> 00:24:26.150
Again, artists sometimes take a lot of like different, I don't know if to say license,

00:24:26.470 --> 00:24:33.870
but we can do research in a very expansive way, not necessarily only by reading

00:24:33.870 --> 00:24:39.450
books, but we get really stimulated by looking at beautiful things and really

00:24:39.450 --> 00:24:41.050
engaging with an archive,

00:24:41.610 --> 00:24:43.010
building a relationship with that.

00:24:43.010 --> 00:24:49.910
So I think for those artists who are interested in the plant world in one way or another,

00:24:50.490 --> 00:24:53.990
Deloitte is really such a unique space because as Megan said,

00:24:54.210 --> 00:24:58.970
you have books dating all the way to like, I don't know, 16th, 17th century,

00:24:59.330 --> 00:25:06.030
like really incredible stuff that at least I didn't know existed here in Cincinnati.

00:25:06.770 --> 00:25:12.370
And as an artist, I can say for sure that after the time that I spent at Deloitte,

00:25:12.570 --> 00:25:18.970
I have like seven ideas just from the time that I spent looking at other books.

00:25:19.150 --> 00:25:21.890
So one thing led to another.

00:25:22.090 --> 00:25:27.210
And now I have a list of ideas that came just from hanging out with books at Deloitte's.

00:25:27.330 --> 00:25:32.670
So it's incredible. And the Artists in Residence program that they have there at Deloitte.

00:25:32.670 --> 00:25:39.370
Again, because of the time that you are assigned to spend at the library,

00:25:39.730 --> 00:25:45.870
there's just no way that you're going to leave the place the same way as you entered, basically.

00:25:45.870 --> 00:25:50.450
You're just going to have so many ideas and it's just really exciting.

00:25:50.690 --> 00:25:53.130
It's a very, very stimulant place to be.

00:25:54.199 --> 00:25:59.279
I love that. I love that. Well, I want to wrap up by just talking a little bit

00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:03.999
about how working on this project for the zine, the monographs specifically,

00:26:04.419 --> 00:26:08.539
whether it's the art or the kind of the more written versions of them,

00:26:08.699 --> 00:26:14.039
how is this overlapping or not with other types of monographs that you all have

00:26:14.039 --> 00:26:20.319
worked on in the past and, you know, where you might have more space or maybe a different focus?

00:26:21.099 --> 00:26:24.859
Well, I've written a lot of monographs over the years. And, you know,

00:26:25.019 --> 00:26:29.139
often I'm using books that I'm already familiar with, you know,

00:26:29.239 --> 00:26:34.019
things that I physically have, because I'm, I love doing research with physical books.

00:26:34.179 --> 00:26:37.819
I mean, there's a lot of benefits from being able to look on PubMed,

00:26:38.219 --> 00:26:42.239
you know, current clinical information about phytochemistry,

00:26:42.239 --> 00:26:44.499
application, that kind of thing.

00:26:44.499 --> 00:26:50.119
But when it comes to the history of plant usage and the botany of it,

00:26:50.239 --> 00:26:52.579
I really love to use physical books.

00:26:52.699 --> 00:26:57.119
So I will rely on my own personal library when I'm writing those monographs.

00:26:57.239 --> 00:27:01.359
And this project was really different in that I, you know, got to use the physical

00:27:01.359 --> 00:27:02.519
books, which is my preference.

00:27:02.619 --> 00:27:07.279
Because, you know, as we know, there's a lot of crazy stuff out there on the

00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:11.439
interwebs when it comes to herbal information. and, you know,

00:27:11.539 --> 00:27:15.939
AI generated content and how accurate or inaccurate that is.

00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:22.259
So it feels much safer to me to use texts that have been physically published

00:27:22.259 --> 00:27:30.559
and to be able to use physical texts from just such a huge array of teachers,

00:27:30.559 --> 00:27:37.599
of specialists, and to be able to look at these old books and pull out the primary

00:27:37.599 --> 00:27:40.899
information from that That felt really special and unique.

00:27:42.145 --> 00:27:48.625
Maybe I would like to add to that I don't write monographs, but in this case,

00:27:48.825 --> 00:27:50.685
for the purpose of this scene,

00:27:51.025 --> 00:27:59.725
one of the aspects of our collaboration that became really special is the fact

00:27:59.725 --> 00:28:04.365
that the practice, in a way, is pretty interdisciplinary.

00:28:04.365 --> 00:28:11.265
So Megan brought in her vast breadth of knowledge to the table as a herbalist.

00:28:12.385 --> 00:28:18.265
But then there was also like a physical aspect or a practical aspect.

00:28:18.485 --> 00:28:25.745
We had the project was delineated within the framework of these seven plants

00:28:25.745 --> 00:28:27.545
that Megan grows in the garden.

00:28:27.545 --> 00:28:32.165
So I got to go to the garden on a workday and harvest these herbs.

00:28:32.165 --> 00:28:34.845
And then we did the cyanotypes together.

00:28:35.685 --> 00:28:41.885
We kind of arranged them and designed them together. And then I was further

00:28:41.885 --> 00:28:48.265
illustrating or making illustrations and illustrating these cyanotypes based on these plants.

00:28:48.525 --> 00:28:53.565
So I think that that interdisciplinary aspect and also with the very special

00:28:53.565 --> 00:28:59.245
focus and with the physical presence of the plants is what makes this project

00:28:59.245 --> 00:29:01.385
so special. It's very, very involved.

00:29:02.405 --> 00:29:07.625
Hmm. I love how these things kind of intertwined and overlap. It's really fun.

00:29:08.465 --> 00:29:12.825
Yay. Well, it sounds like such a project we were talking a little bit about

00:29:12.825 --> 00:29:15.145
before we hit record here about how,

00:29:15.625 --> 00:29:20.705
just how much goes into creating a project like this, where you have it in your

00:29:20.705 --> 00:29:26.005
hands, but then there's just so many layers to it and so much love and attention to detail and.

00:29:27.256 --> 00:29:33.316
Yeah, it all comes together. So I want to make sure that people know how they

00:29:33.316 --> 00:29:35.836
can get a copy if they want one.

00:29:36.516 --> 00:29:37.616
Would either of you like to share

00:29:37.616 --> 00:29:41.856
how people can get their hands on one of these zines if they want one?

00:29:42.596 --> 00:29:49.116
Yeah, so my website is okotowerbals.com and you can order the zines there and

00:29:49.116 --> 00:29:50.096
have them shipped to you.

00:29:50.396 --> 00:29:55.216
And then you can also get them via our publishing partner, which is Cereal Box

00:29:55.216 --> 00:29:59.316
Studios. and they'll have them available on their website. And then Julio,

00:29:59.416 --> 00:30:00.536
do you want to mention your website?

00:30:01.216 --> 00:30:08.276
Sure. So my website is mundokenti.com and you can also get the scenes there.

00:30:09.476 --> 00:30:13.336
Yay! And I'll put those links, as well as the links that you all had mentioned

00:30:13.336 --> 00:30:15.696
earlier, to the Lloyd Library.

00:30:16.496 --> 00:30:19.536
I'll put those in the show notes in case people didn't have something to write

00:30:19.536 --> 00:30:21.196
down while they are listening.

00:30:22.156 --> 00:30:27.196
Any last things you want to share, like pieces of advice for people who might

00:30:27.196 --> 00:30:30.836
want to undertake a similar project, or any other encouragement that you can

00:30:30.836 --> 00:30:34.036
give to other people as we wrap up this episode?

00:30:34.036 --> 00:30:41.216
I think that people are really thirsty for physical items that are made with

00:30:41.216 --> 00:30:44.896
care and awareness and love.

00:30:45.136 --> 00:30:49.536
And I just encourage folks to make things these days. I mean,

00:30:49.836 --> 00:30:55.116
so much of our lives are spent in this two-dimensional capacity and,

00:30:55.496 --> 00:30:59.936
you know, we are such creatures of physical form.

00:31:00.256 --> 00:31:02.336
And so there's, you know, such

00:31:02.336 --> 00:31:06.276
a deep satisfaction with making something that you can touch and hold.

00:31:06.556 --> 00:31:11.656
And I mean, that's true with this bean project that we did to be able to touch

00:31:11.656 --> 00:31:17.196
and hold this, you know, this labor of really a lot of love and care in our hands.

00:31:17.196 --> 00:31:20.556
But I think that that translates into so many different mediums,

00:31:20.676 --> 00:31:22.296
too. It's especially important right now.

00:31:23.236 --> 00:31:27.436
Yeah, and to add to that, make something and make something with a friend.

00:31:27.756 --> 00:31:31.916
See what happens. It's a really good way of getting to know someone in a different way.

00:31:32.476 --> 00:31:38.476
And honestly, we know that community is so important for just human thriving,

00:31:38.856 --> 00:31:41.116
humans thriving in the world.

00:31:41.376 --> 00:31:45.256
So, yeah, make something, make something with others.

00:31:46.512 --> 00:31:51.712
I love that as a way to wrap up. There's that special synergy that you get places

00:31:51.712 --> 00:31:54.152
you can ever get by yourself when you work with somebody else.

00:31:54.992 --> 00:31:58.992
Yay. Well, thank you all so much for coming in to share a little bit about the zine.

00:31:59.172 --> 00:32:02.972
I hope people are leaving, feeling, A, interested in checking out the zine,

00:32:03.092 --> 00:32:08.392
but also to make something themselves and to kind of bring things into the world in a physical form.

00:32:08.732 --> 00:32:12.512
Because I do think that's such a, it's very needed right now.

00:32:12.512 --> 00:32:16.132
So thank you so much, not just for being here, but also for all the work and

00:32:16.132 --> 00:32:17.672
love that went into this project.

00:32:17.892 --> 00:32:20.852
And so excited to welcome it into the world.

00:32:21.592 --> 00:32:24.412
Thanks for having us. It's great to be able to connect about this.

00:32:24.872 --> 00:32:26.312
Thank you, Camille. You're welcome.