79 | Navigating Insurance as a Clinical Herbalist

WEBVTT

00:00:00.017 --> 00:00:03.217
Hi there, welcome to In the Clinic with Camille. My name is Camille Freeman.

00:00:03.457 --> 00:00:06.637
I'm an herbalist and nutritionist, and in this podcast, I share little tips

00:00:06.637 --> 00:00:09.397
and tidbits that might be helpful for other practitioners.

00:00:10.077 --> 00:00:13.177
So today, I'm going to answer a question that was submitted anonymously.

00:00:13.657 --> 00:00:16.917
And before I do that, I just want to remind you that if you have a question

00:00:16.917 --> 00:00:20.417
that's been on your mind, something you'd like me to address, I would love to do that.

00:00:20.417 --> 00:00:24.497
You can go to intheclinic.com and submit a question through the form there,

00:00:24.497 --> 00:00:29.937
or you're welcome to email me, and I would be more than happy to share my thoughts

00:00:29.937 --> 00:00:32.017
on whatever's happening on your mind.

00:00:32.477 --> 00:00:35.937
And I'm happy to keep you anonymous if that is your preference.

00:00:36.397 --> 00:00:40.337
So, today I have a question that was submitted actually quite a while ago from

00:00:40.337 --> 00:00:44.957
somebody, and I recorded a full episode a few weeks back, and unfortunately,

00:00:45.357 --> 00:00:48.637
right before I recorded it, apparently, my headset died.

00:00:49.357 --> 00:00:53.277
Silent but deadly death and anyway

00:00:53.277 --> 00:00:56.117
just threw a monkey wrench in the whole thing so

00:00:56.117 --> 00:00:58.917
finally i'm ready to re-record so

00:00:58.917 --> 00:01:03.117
here we are take two i'm hoping this one will will come through let me read

00:01:03.117 --> 00:01:07.157
you the question so here's what this person writes from my herb schools business

00:01:07.157 --> 00:01:09.917
class and from talking to other practitioners i've gotten the impression that

00:01:09.917 --> 00:01:13.537
there isn't very good insurance for herbalists no herbal practitioners i know

00:01:13.537 --> 00:01:17.037
have insurance and it feels like a bit of we're holding our breath and hoping we won't get sued.

00:01:17.277 --> 00:01:21.697
We were taught to have very thorough informed consent and to be very clear about our scope.

00:01:22.177 --> 00:01:26.437
So they're just wondering if I could chat a little bit more about reflections on this.

00:01:27.057 --> 00:01:32.077
So yes, now before I do, let me just be really clear that I am not a lawyer.

00:01:32.237 --> 00:01:35.977
I'm not an insurance professional. I'm just a practitioner who has looked into

00:01:35.977 --> 00:01:38.537
this myself and worked with other people who've done the same.

00:01:38.677 --> 00:01:44.957
So I need you to take this as one perspective and please do your due diligence

00:01:44.957 --> 00:01:49.797
in how this applies to you, if it applies to you, and what options are available to you.

00:01:50.077 --> 00:01:54.977
So that being said, I want to first clarify what we mean by insurance.

00:01:55.437 --> 00:01:58.737
There are actually lots of different types of insurance that might be relevant

00:01:58.737 --> 00:02:01.737
to you as a herbal practitioner.

00:02:02.077 --> 00:02:05.457
What I'm going to very specifically be focusing on is things that are relevant

00:02:05.457 --> 00:02:07.157
to clinical herbalists.

00:02:07.357 --> 00:02:12.337
There are people who, of course, are making products either for public consumption

00:02:12.337 --> 00:02:16.417
like farmers market sales or health food store sales, as well as,

00:02:16.457 --> 00:02:18.877
you know, extracts, formulas, that sort of thing for clients.

00:02:19.037 --> 00:02:24.257
That is outside of my scope. As far as I know, none of these policies are relevant to product sales.

00:02:24.717 --> 00:02:27.577
And that is much more challenging to find insurance for.

00:02:27.937 --> 00:02:31.877
So again, to be super clear, I'm talking about the clinical component of the

00:02:31.877 --> 00:02:34.417
work that many of us do. Now.

00:02:35.571 --> 00:02:39.131
The types of insurance, again, I'm just going to do a loose overview of some

00:02:39.131 --> 00:02:41.271
of the most common types that might be relevant to us.

00:02:41.371 --> 00:02:43.891
There's more. But one of them is general liability.

00:02:44.211 --> 00:02:48.331
And this applies not just to herbalists, but anyone who has a business might

00:02:48.331 --> 00:02:49.631
consider general liability.

00:02:49.871 --> 00:02:52.611
And this is things like somebody comes to your premises and they slip and fall,

00:02:52.751 --> 00:02:58.191
or something happens to them while they're there, or you rent a facility to

00:02:58.191 --> 00:03:00.811
have a class in and it gets damaged somehow.

00:03:01.051 --> 00:03:03.571
You accidentally break the air conditioning or I don't know,

00:03:03.671 --> 00:03:08.011
whatever, something like that. General liability insurance would hopefully cover that.

00:03:08.431 --> 00:03:13.031
There's also professional liability insurance. This is what is also sometimes

00:03:13.031 --> 00:03:15.191
known as errors and omissions insurance.

00:03:15.411 --> 00:03:18.291
And this relates to the specific job you have been trained to do.

00:03:18.491 --> 00:03:23.171
So in our case as herbalists, that might mean you recommended a formula to somebody

00:03:23.171 --> 00:03:27.691
and they felt that it made them worse, that damage happened because of it,

00:03:27.811 --> 00:03:33.011
or you failed to highlight a safety issue related to something that they were taking,

00:03:33.311 --> 00:03:35.851
something along those lines, that would be errors and omissions.

00:03:36.111 --> 00:03:38.711
And that should fall under professional liability.

00:03:39.431 --> 00:03:43.731
There's also other types of insurance, such as participant accident insurance.

00:03:43.931 --> 00:03:47.151
And this is when you're teaching a class and maybe somebody slices their finger

00:03:47.151 --> 00:03:48.771
open when you're cutting up garlic

00:03:48.771 --> 00:03:52.651
or the billboard falls on their head or whatever, that sort of thing.

00:03:52.931 --> 00:03:58.391
There is business interruption insurance, such as you're bopping along,

00:03:58.591 --> 00:04:06.031
making money to support you, and you break your leg and you're not able to get to work for a while,

00:04:06.391 --> 00:04:08.471
or that's whatever, these types of things.

00:04:08.651 --> 00:04:11.071
So those are just some of the options that are available.

00:04:11.551 --> 00:04:16.231
Most of us are probably most interested in professional liability insurance.

00:04:16.611 --> 00:04:20.211
And professional liability insurance as an herbalist is hard to come by because

00:04:20.211 --> 00:04:21.511
we are not a regulated profession.

00:04:22.091 --> 00:04:29.391
There are only two companies that I know of that explicitly offer herbal insurance in this way.

00:04:29.731 --> 00:04:32.691
One of them is alternative balance, and one of them is, I believe,

00:04:32.791 --> 00:04:35.131
the American Acupuncture Council still offers this.

00:04:35.311 --> 00:04:38.471
That is a policy that used to be recommended by the American Herbalist Guild.

00:04:38.931 --> 00:04:41.811
There may be others that I'm not aware of, but as of right now,

00:04:41.911 --> 00:04:43.371
these are the only two that I'm familiar with.

00:04:43.811 --> 00:04:47.691
Okay, so how do you decide should you buy one of these?

00:04:48.331 --> 00:04:51.331
Is it worth it to you?

00:04:51.691 --> 00:04:54.711
The first thing that I recommend doing if you are planning to buy any kind of

00:04:54.711 --> 00:04:59.951
insurance is ask for a copy of the policy, not the sales copy on the website,

00:04:59.991 --> 00:05:03.871
or what they say, but the policy itself and read through it.

00:05:03.971 --> 00:05:08.211
They're long, they're kind of complicated to understand sometimes, but it is worth it.

00:05:09.451 --> 00:05:13.551
I personally have Alternative Balance. I have read through the policy,

00:05:13.551 --> 00:05:15.471
and it is a little bit opaque.

00:05:16.071 --> 00:05:20.191
And I'll just tell you, I'll walk you through how I decided to purchase it.

00:05:20.671 --> 00:05:25.491
So the first thing to me is trying to figure out what exactly it covers.

00:05:25.771 --> 00:05:29.471
The policy itself does not mention a ton of specifics about herbs.

00:05:29.991 --> 00:05:33.931
It is professional liability coverage specifically for herbs.

00:05:34.653 --> 00:05:39.133
Herbal practitioners. It says herbal consultations. So I have to assume that

00:05:39.133 --> 00:05:41.633
at least some herbal consultation work would be covered.

00:05:41.813 --> 00:05:48.393
I don't actually feel super confident about the extreme scope of what is included.

00:05:48.773 --> 00:05:53.293
However, I decided to buy it anyway for a variety of reasons.

00:05:53.893 --> 00:05:56.993
One of the things I really, as I was reading through this, and actually other

00:05:56.993 --> 00:05:58.353
policies I thought in the past

00:05:58.353 --> 00:06:05.533
is that they're all very clear that you absolutely may not treat warts.

00:06:05.973 --> 00:06:12.273
I don't know what is so specific about warts, but please, if you have insurance,

00:06:12.913 --> 00:06:15.053
do not. Don't do that. It's not covered.

00:06:15.493 --> 00:06:19.233
It's very... Anyway, I'll have to look into why that is, but every single policy

00:06:19.233 --> 00:06:21.233
I've ever read is like, that's the one thing.

00:06:22.253 --> 00:06:25.493
Don't do that. Okay. Anyway,

00:06:25.813 --> 00:06:32.933
I decided to get it anyway, because to me, the policy that is offered has both

00:06:32.933 --> 00:06:37.373
general and professional liability as well as business interruption coverage.

00:06:37.773 --> 00:06:43.033
And to me, those three things combined are worth the annual price that I'm paying

00:06:43.033 --> 00:06:45.093
in case something were to happen.

00:06:45.333 --> 00:06:50.813
I feel like if nothing else that I would have the possibility of receiving some

00:06:50.813 --> 00:06:55.553
reimbursement for legal fees, some support, you know, some support if I were

00:06:55.553 --> 00:06:58.273
to get sued and that sort of thing.

00:06:58.413 --> 00:07:02.233
So to me, it is worth the price. I actually pay a slightly higher price because

00:07:02.233 --> 00:07:04.593
I have to add on the nutrition work that I do.

00:07:04.873 --> 00:07:08.373
So I can just share with you if anybody's interested. For me,

00:07:08.493 --> 00:07:10.133
the annual price is $4.08.

00:07:10.333 --> 00:07:13.553
And again, a substantial amount of that is actually the add-on for nutrition.

00:07:13.553 --> 00:07:19.453
So I think it's quite a good deal less for people who are only herbalists.

00:07:20.453 --> 00:07:27.433
Okay. So basically, I decided to buy it because I am more of a rather be safe than sorry person.

00:07:28.093 --> 00:07:30.793
However, I don't have good details

00:07:30.793 --> 00:07:35.173
on what are the risks, what are the possibility that I might be sued.

00:07:35.713 --> 00:07:39.753
One of the other things that I have done is I have hired a lawyer to look over

00:07:39.753 --> 00:07:43.593
my consent forms just to make sure that they're as clear as they could be,

00:07:43.733 --> 00:07:48.053
that they are likely to uphold in court, that people understand what they're

00:07:48.053 --> 00:07:50.293
getting and the risks that they're taking when they work with me.

00:07:50.773 --> 00:07:53.573
And I also try to be really clear with my clients on.

00:07:54.629 --> 00:07:59.029
You know, as much information as I can about what I'm doing and what I'm not

00:07:59.029 --> 00:08:03.409
doing, their choices to take herbs or not take herbs, all of these different types of things.

00:08:04.529 --> 00:08:10.149
So I'm pretty much a cautious person. And for that reason, I think it's better to do this.

00:08:10.289 --> 00:08:13.229
I also have the money coming into my practice to be able to afford that.

00:08:15.069 --> 00:08:18.589
Again, I don't want to make any specific recommendations because I don't know.

00:08:21.229 --> 00:08:26.929
Anybody's individual situation. But what I can say is if you were thinking about

00:08:26.929 --> 00:08:31.489
not getting insurance or if you don't really think this insurance applies to you,

00:08:31.649 --> 00:08:35.609
the things that I would want to do instead would be to first of all,

00:08:35.729 --> 00:08:41.209
make sure that you have a very clear separation between your personal finances

00:08:41.209 --> 00:08:42.429
and your business finances,

00:08:42.669 --> 00:08:47.529
ideally having an LLC or something along those lines if LLC is not what your country does.

00:08:47.889 --> 00:08:52.289
But I would definitely do that so that, you know, if you are being sued because

00:08:52.289 --> 00:08:55.669
of your business stuff, then really you're just your business finances are at

00:08:55.669 --> 00:08:59.889
risk and not your personal is the way I understand that if you set up your LLC correctly.

00:09:00.589 --> 00:09:04.229
So I absolutely do that. And then I would, I do think it makes sense to have

00:09:04.229 --> 00:09:12.089
a lawyer look over your informed consent policy that you are having people sign

00:09:12.089 --> 00:09:16.989
and definitely make sure that you do have that in order to protect yourself as much as possible.

00:09:18.289 --> 00:09:22.029
So anyway, that is my recommendation. It is a lot to think about.

00:09:22.149 --> 00:09:27.529
And like I said, in terms of professional liability, I think it's probably somewhat limited.

00:09:27.929 --> 00:09:35.029
However, to me, the option of the general liability, the business interruption, business property.

00:09:37.469 --> 00:09:41.949
Coverage. To me, that kind of swayed me in the direction of getting it.

00:09:42.349 --> 00:09:47.089
And I actually would be very interested if you or anyone you know has ever had

00:09:47.089 --> 00:09:50.409
to use their professional liability insurance as an herbalist.

00:09:50.689 --> 00:09:54.889
I'd be super curious to talk to that person, even anonymously or off the record,

00:09:55.089 --> 00:09:59.309
so to speak, just to hear more about how that went, what was covered, and so forth.

00:10:00.249 --> 00:10:04.789
So that's not a very definitive answer. And I'm sorry for that.

00:10:05.549 --> 00:10:10.649
However, I think it's a murky gray area and something that you may have to weigh

00:10:10.649 --> 00:10:12.409
against. Like, okay, how many clients do I have?

00:10:12.489 --> 00:10:15.949
What are the chances of something happening?

00:10:16.169 --> 00:10:19.429
And then how devastating and damaging would it be?

00:10:20.049 --> 00:10:23.989
And deciding, do I want to do this now? Do I want to wait until I have a certain

00:10:23.989 --> 00:10:26.509
amount of income coming in where it would not be a, you know,

00:10:26.609 --> 00:10:28.269
where I would be able to afford it more easily?

00:10:29.309 --> 00:10:32.749
Do I want to just put some money away every month as part of my business expenses for this?

00:10:33.129 --> 00:10:37.489
Really thinking it through. Again, for me, I just like to be safe to provide

00:10:37.489 --> 00:10:40.009
as many layers of safety as I can.

00:10:40.449 --> 00:10:43.369
And it seems like a reasonable expense,

00:10:44.358 --> 00:10:47.658
for me at this time. So that's why I have the Alternative Balance one.

00:10:48.718 --> 00:10:52.398
And lastly, to be super clear, I actually just recently switched to Alternative Balance.

00:10:52.598 --> 00:10:56.758
I've only had it for less than a year because up until recently,

00:10:56.758 --> 00:10:58.458
I've been a licensed nutritionist.

00:10:58.618 --> 00:11:02.578
So I had a different insurance that was available for licensed nutritionists.

00:11:02.678 --> 00:11:04.878
They don't have insurance for herbalists.

00:11:04.998 --> 00:11:10.518
So when I let go of my nutrition license earlier this year, I switched insurance

00:11:10.518 --> 00:11:12.338
and chose Alternative Balance.

00:11:12.538 --> 00:11:15.418
So that's what I'm doing now. anyway i hope that helps

00:11:15.418 --> 00:11:18.098
if you have any follow-up questions or additional information that you'd like

00:11:18.098 --> 00:11:20.758
me to add to the pot for people to

00:11:20.758 --> 00:11:23.598
consider please reach out anytime and otherwise i

00:11:23.598 --> 00:11:30.078
hope to be back in touch sooner than has been with another podcast episode all

00:11:30.078 --> 00:11:34.158
right thanks everybody if you would like to stay in touch please go to my website

00:11:34.158 --> 00:11:37.458
camillefreeman.com newsletter sign up for my newsletter i'll send it out every

00:11:37.458 --> 00:11:40.518
thursday and i will let you know when new podcast episodes come out.

00:11:40.838 --> 00:11:42.138
All right. Take care. Bye.